Election dilemma

Be very careful about comment pieces by Jews in left wing publications. Frequently they are Jinos - "Jews in name only". They only come out as Jews to criticise other Jews or the actions of Israel. Otherwise they do not associate within the Jewish community in any way at all, not even as 'cultural Jews'.

I am fully aware of Dietrich Bonhoeffer's poem, and am of the opinion that strict Islam is closer to orthodox Judaism that it is to Labour. As such once, Labour have sorted the Jews out, they will go for the Moslems. There are fundamental edicts in Islam which are totally at odds with the liberal, anything goes attitude of western society and eventually the snowflakes in Labour will understand that their 'friends' in Hamas do not believe the same thing as them.

So a vote against Labour is a vote to protect all minorities. I know and the Moslems know who their enemies are on the right - its obvious. It's those who profess friendship to different parts of similar communities which I fear. Jews voting for the current Labour party are turkeys voting for Christmas.

Sorry Espada but I really struggle with the concept of 'Jinos'. There's a clear implication there that no proper Jew could criticise (say) the action of some communities, particularly the more 'extreme' end of the Orthodox sects or the State of Israel. The Guardian is a liberal (small l) publication and not in any real sense of the left.

I've long seen the close similarity between Islam and Judaism - particularly working with adherents of either and issues over diet, prayer routines etc.

I'd also add that any narrative using the word 'snowflake' gets the same (ie very limited) respect as when 'political correctness' and 'virtue signalling' crop up.

I cannot, and would not try to, gainsay your lived experience as a Jew who experiences abuse in street. I do though think your community is way wide of the mark if they think anybody (barring isolated nut jobs) in the Labour party is coming for them in way Bonhoeffer's poem implies.

Something has undoubtedly allowed a lot of views liberals like me though were gone to crawl out from under their stones. Not labour that enabled that, neither is it unique to the UK.

Would what? 

Coming rather late to this thread during a busy week, I sense that most if not all of us are centrists: OK, that word can mean many things, but generally we don't want government by extreme right or extreme left, and we don't much like the look of what's currently on offer.  And we all abhor both anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.

Having been tolerably well governed in the Blair and Cameron years (I can live with either centre-left or centre-right), like most of you above I find it very hard to know whom to vote for this time. Oddly enough, we live in a safe Tory seat (North Dorset) but only a mile or so from the border with the Somerton and Frome constituency which was Lib Dem until 2015 when they were (unfairly I think) pilloried for being part of the coalition. It may go back, although Jo Swinson doesn't seem to be of Nick Clegg's calibre.

In many ways another coalition might be the answer, but I don't think many people will vote deliberately to achieve that, even if it were clear how to do it.

I know John Howell (Henley): he's an organist so he can't be all bad. Some years ago he and I shared directing the music for a choral Evensong. He had a distinguished career in business (OBE, I think for services to export) but strangely he hasn't made much of a mark in the Commons.

Anti-Semitic attack on Tube

You will appreciate my concerns when you read this news report. This type of thing is increasing in regularity, hence the considerations I make in deciding who to vote for.

The Jews have been the victims of discrimination and attacks, including pogroms and murder for over 2,500 years. The emergence of the State of Israel did not cause the Holocaust. So any political or economic decision I take and we all take is based upon the simple question of is, how will it affect my life, and by my life I mean dead or alive.

I have never in my life felt so vulnerable and that includes the era of the National Front and BNP. Any other political consideration is left well behind. I know none you can understand this, but if you met me or the other 99.9% Jews in the UK who think Corbyn is dangerous you might get a flavour of why voting for Johnson is not a vote 'For Johnson' but a vote to keep Corbyn out.

Just like with Brexit when I held my nose and voted remain, I may end up doing the same now and vote Tory, because the only alternative for me is far worse. I need to see some polling in our area before I decide.

Espada, I think there are more of us (generally, not just on this forum) who understand your position better than you think - although I can quite see why you feel pessimistic about it. Perhaps because a huge majority of people don't have these prejudices, they find it hard to believe that in the 21st century the prejudices are still there.

I don't suppose that dear old Dustbyn is actually anti-Semitic himself: but he is far too weak and indecisive to get rid of the people in his party who are. So quite understandably you can't support Labour. He's also too weak and indecisive to rein in the people who have just produced such an unrealistic manifesto. The poty of it is that both he and Boris were elected to their positions as party leaders by the wrong sort of people, people who don't represent the generally centrist views of the majority. Nicola Sturgeon (with whom, as a half-Scottish Unionist I profoundly disagree on independence) is much the best at her job of the main party leaders....and that's no help to us.

There is perhaps a glimmer of hope that the Conservatives, if they win, won't be as inflexibly right-wing as the likes of Iain Duncan Smith. It's a good sign that Boris has so far kept that appalling man out of his cabinet (think, for example, of the consequences of his 'universal credit').