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Post by Alanović on Apr 19, 2017 14:41:49 GMT
The mandate is shaky, the version of the exit being pursued is being run with no regard for the wishes of a substantial minority, there is no compromise being sought, only demands for unity which some seem to be swallowing, which is a shame. No. I shall support the party arguing most strongly for my view. The mandate is as shaky as a close, FPTP, result in a general election. We usually have to accept that. A difficulty here is that compromise is difficult. A government with a small majority has to behave itself and probably ditch its most extreme ideas. Brexit, when it comes down to it, means Brexit. A soft Brexit in which the UK accepted the likely conditions that go with being a member of the single market would not be a Brexit at all - it would mean being "in" without even consultative representation, let alone a vote. I can only endorse your statement that you should vote for the party arguing your view. I'm struggling to vote for any of them, although I will pick one in the end so as to qualify for moaning rights. Difference being, a shaky FPTP majority isn't a permanent situation - the referendum result, if implemented, would be. I of course accept wobbly GE results, in fact the wobbliest in my adult life was 2010, and I fully supported the decisive step taken by the LibDems to hold their noses and do the right thing by forming a stable government at a time of extreme economic uncertainty. We get to change governments, we won't get another shot at EU membership, and I believe the mandate for leaving is full of holes.
What I wouldn't give for an effective Labour leader right now, and a hung Parliament producing a Lab/Lib/SNP progressive coalition.
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Post by Hofmeister on Apr 19, 2017 15:28:04 GMT
What I wouldn't give for an effective Labour leader right now, and a hung Parliament producing a Lab/Lib/SNP progressive coalition. And that wont deliver you a stop to Brexit either. Labour is for out, because their marginal seats voted for it. You and the Beest really need to wake up and accept the fact that the world has changed in the last 12 months, we ARE leaving the EU, change is coming. Yes I am annoyed about it, yes its a bad thing. The only way to cope with change is not to try and cling to whats gone, but to work and cope with whats coming. I was in the IT game for 38 years, change was a given for every one of them, and you plan and work with it. Watch this little fable.
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Post by commerdriver on Apr 19, 2017 15:34:13 GMT
May is, if anything even more deaf than Margaret Thatcher was to anyone who disagrees with her. She got what she wanted from the vote today, why should she have been asked if she'd lost a vote. I don't think she is trying to eliminate opposition, she is trying to demonstrate that most of the country wants to see us get a deal from the process as , I think, she does. I think what she is saying is back me or sack me, believing that most people will back her. She is not a nice woman and maybe it will all backfire on her, but I kind of like that she is on our side (the UK not brexiteers etc) in this. You don't get anywhere with the EU in being a wimp.
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Post by commerdriver on Apr 19, 2017 15:36:48 GMT
I think in the other place that would have got a green thumb from me
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Post by commerdriver on Apr 19, 2017 15:38:23 GMT
Mr admin/mods, why are we running 2 threads on the same topic?
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Post by Hofmeister on Apr 19, 2017 15:43:44 GMT
On The Desperate Situations principle, I thought they might have looked at the electoral arithmetic and concluded they need the time to get themselves in order - under a new leader - before they're fit for the contest. As Commer said, to vote against an election is a direct statement saying "We are unfit to govern" And now you are using hysterical Socialist Worker language, The election call is because 1/ Labour is a mess, kick them while they are down before they recover to be a threat. 2/ The majority isn't large enough to ignore and not have pander to the loons, make it bigger then they can get a slap as well. 3/ Brexit is coming and it would come to a head at just the wrong time in the Electoral cycle to make a good job of it. 4/ Lets see how much support Sturgeon has got for indyref2 Given that, to do anything other than call an election now would have been foolish, all the ducks are in a row, and they wont be for long.
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Post by Admin on Apr 19, 2017 15:57:43 GMT
Mr admin/mods, why are we running 2 threads on the same topic? Merged. (I hope)
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Post by commerdriver on Apr 19, 2017 15:59:08 GMT
thanks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 16:00:41 GMT
>I think in the other place that would have got a green thumb from me
And 15 frownie faces from the spineless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 16:09:13 GMT
Everything I know, hear or see tells me that we would have been better to stay within the EU.
However, we would have had to take it seriously. And we never have. We ridicule it, we sent rubbish or old and useless politicians that we don't care about, we put no time into understand the issues, we just believed what the Daily Mail said etc. etc.
Thus we voted to leave. And that act changed the world. There is no way back. Even the EU has changed irrevocably.
Dumb as it was, stupid and shortsighted, and influenced by so many bigots, it nonetheless is our reality.
And now we have to make it work. The bigots won't, they'll just puff up their chests with self-importance without understanding a thing. The stupid and ignorant won't, they'll just keep reading the Daily Mail.
So the intelligent people who voted leave, and the intelligent people who voted stay, have to get together and make leave work.
People still pursuing the "Remain" option and believing it viable or possible could be seen as courageous, naive, ridiculous, stupid or right. I don't know, but I'm not one of them.
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Post by Alanović on Apr 19, 2017 16:35:57 GMT
Can't believe how little is being made of the election expenses issue from 2015. This must be one of May's biggest drivers in calling this unnecessary election.
I hope it blows up in her face. However, I equally ardently hope we don't end up with Corbyn. It's an absolute horror show.
I don't see why anyone in a democracy (of sorts) has to accept any political event. Otherwise, let's just call this the last ever election, shall we?
I believe in the European Union being a massive net benefit to the entire continent, I want my country to be part of it. I don't see why I should argue otherwise.
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Post by lygonos on Apr 19, 2017 22:49:13 GMT
I expect the SNP will hold all their seats and possibly take down Carmichael (Lib Dem) after his lying bullshit around the last election.
I doubt David Mundell will lose his seat in the Borders - he seems to be a relative 'wet', lacking significant ocular swillelation - he did come out as gay after the last election but I don't think that really surprises or worries anyone these days.
Perhaps the Tories will pick up some seats in Wales since the Taffys seem most keen on Brexit?
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Apr 20, 2017 1:08:26 GMT
There are those in Wales who will vote for Labour regardless because their parents did. I count my mother in this lot and she's 80. She voted to remain in the EU BTW.
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Post by lygonos on Apr 20, 2017 21:21:22 GMT
There are those in Wales who will vote for Labour regardless because their parents did. I count my mother in this lot and she's 80. She voted to remain in the EU BTW.
They said that about Labour in Scotland only 10 years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 16:18:44 GMT
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