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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 23, 2020 22:35:38 GMT
...not unexpected rumours of a deal tomight.
Robert Peston on ITV was doing his best to avoid summarising it as "we've given an awful lot away to get back a very small amount of what we already had" - but that was the message that was coming through.
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Post by EspadaIII on Dec 24, 2020 16:09:40 GMT
We have a deal...
Now, will JRM and Keir Starmer support it?
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 24, 2020 16:19:48 GMT
Johnson doesn’t need them to. Probably best for Labour and the SNP to abstain and let history record this as something his Tories inflicted on the nation.
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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 24, 2020 16:44:44 GMT
Ideally, I'd like the opposition parties to abstain, and make the Tories completely own the deal.
I have some sympathy, however, with Starmer and his (avowed) intention to whip in favour of a deal. Politically, he needs to be aware of the red/blue wall issue, and whilst I'm not fully convinced that jumping in favour will resolve any of his issues there, a good few of his MPs are. The practical issue he faces, however, is whether or not Boris can carry the vote against opposition abstention if the ERG et al don't think the deal is "outy" enough.
I suspect that will become apparent as more detail becomes apparent, but voting down a deal in favour of no deal is not something the opposition parties should be enabling.
In Realpolitik, we are where we are - if any opposition part is going to vote in favour (and I think Boris will force a vote for all sorts of perceived political advantage) then they'd better lay the groundwork PDQ. ("we're not really voting for it, it's crap; we're voting against no deal which is even worse".
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Post by dixinormus on Dec 24, 2020 22:53:20 GMT
I’m sure that all sides will endorse the deal. Everyone is so sick of talking about it and sick of the uncertainty now.
I do wonder if the French move to block Dover arrivals because of Covid didn’t have an ulterior motive here though..!
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 24, 2020 23:38:06 GMT
Yes, that may turn out to be his best plan, given that parliamentary votes don’t allow for nuance or explanation.
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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 28, 2020 19:42:20 GMT
I note that a large proportion of the NI MPs have declared they will be voting against the agreement (including the DUP - God, how duplicitous conflicted are they?).
The ERG now require some scrutiny - if they declare they will vote against, then Starmer's stance may be wholly vindicated. If they don't, then you have to decide whether you trust them or not. Do you feel lucky, well do you punk?. (I wouldn't trust them as far as JRM's nanny could throw him, now - even if it were just dropping him on his head; again).
I think the numbers might be tight enough not to take any chance - the message needs managing, though.
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Post by dixinormus on Dec 29, 2020 3:02:44 GMT
It’s probably impossible to please everybody, but I hope the Powers That Be just move on and get on with it now.
Interesting to see that all the EU member states have signed off the deal without a murmur...
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Post by tyrednexited on Dec 29, 2020 9:47:06 GMT
Interesting to see that all the EU member states have signed off the deal without a murmur... There are a number of factors involved in that. It is well-publicised that the appropriate people have been fully briefed on progress from day 1 (assisted by the fact that they had a fully thought-out negotiating strategy and end-result decided from the off). In addition, though the devil is in the detail, the rumours being circulated about the deal are that it places the UK in a straightjacket (in that what has been agreed is underwritten in the event of "breach" by the ability of the EU to unilaterally and immediately apply penalties, in the form of sanctions or tariffs before anything ends up in the (long-winded) arbitration process)). I think the combination of these, and other factors, has enabled the EU to simply shrug its shoulders and effectively say "little change for us, and if it's contravened, well, hey, we have the remedies". Meanwhile, the UK interested parties are already (see David Davis on fisheries for one) trying to work out whether and how they can break the terms without penalties. This one will, as they say "run and run". And, don't forget, the agreement covers largely goods, where the EU is in a massive surplus of trade with the UK, so it's in their interest to have thought this through and agree. Services, however, in which the UK is in surplus with the EU, have as yet been sidelined. Good negotiating tactic, Frosty! |
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Post by dixinormus on Jan 7, 2021 20:09:06 GMT
Brexit or not, France has now closed its borders to the UK because of the Covid threat anyway.
Interesting to read that the EU bureaucracy is a lot slower than the UK in rolling out vaccination programs in its member countries..?
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jan 7, 2021 22:50:27 GMT
But it’s not ‘Brexit or not’. The UK is now outside the EU common Covid travel area, so there is no longer any automatic right of entry. It’s another of Johnson’s little gifts
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 8:15:20 GMT
But it’s not ‘Brexit or not’. The UK is now outside the EU common Covid travel area, so there is no longer any automatic right of entry. It’s another of Johnson’s little gifts For all practical purposes there wasn't before. I've kept colleagues waiting on numerous occasions. While they've had time to saunter from one domestic gate to the next and are sat having a coffee I've still been queueing to get through passport control. Early morning flights into CDG were a particular pain. |
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Post by bromptonaut on Jan 8, 2021 8:35:22 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 9:15:26 GMT
Brexit or not, France has now closed its borders to the UK because of the Covid threat anyway. Interesting to read that the EU bureaucracy is a lot slower than the UK in rolling out vaccination programs in its member countries..? Member countries are rolling it our according to their own processes, regulations and requirements. As would the UK have done within the EU. "EU Bureaucracy" is not in charge of rollouts. What's interesting is that the disinformation about the EU is continuing, and people are still buying it. |
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Post by EspadaIII on Jan 8, 2021 11:50:54 GMT
But there was significant delay in ordering vaccines as they were trying to push for the wholly European Sanofi vaccine which failed. So they had no choice but to order vaccine with some non-EU component, rather late in the day. Pfizer is EU developed, Belgian made, but funded by a US company. Astra-Zeneca/Oxford is a wholly British vaccine (I think).
Just a shame they couldn't see that the safety of people is more important that grandstanding; not that the UK has been much better in other areas, but in this area, we were second possibly only to Israel in getting large orders in early on and we didn't mind who supplied it.
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