Johnson and the Great Escape?

Or revive an absurd, offensive and discredited plan to send people to Rwanda to try to distract from the corrupt leader’s imminent comeuppance.

When the Rwanda plan was first announced ten months ago, we found that the government hadn’t even bothered to obtain Rwanda’s agreement first.

They’re not just malevolent — although Patel certainly has the demagogue’s fondness for giving resentful inadequates someone to hate. They’re amateurish and incompetent with it.

I think you're just descending into invective and abuse and somewhat exaggerating the situation.

At the moment the UK is an attractive place to come not least because it's easy to get to, one can arrive with any old pack of lies, and then disappear while your 'case' is being heard/appealed.

The Rwanda thing is an attempt to make it deeply unattractive for single young men to come here, essential the problem, give them somewhere extremely unattractive to live while their case goes through the process, and little incentive to disappear beyond trying a long and difficult journey again.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I can see the point. And given that it is aimed at the young, male migrants and fortune hunters rather than actual asylum seekers most of the wailing headlines are just that.

I'm thinking that I have much less of a problem with it then I thought though it is an unfinished idea. If the rule was apply from outside the country and it goes through normal steps, but turn up in our country with no paperwork and no reason other than desire to be here, and you get plan B then there's not much wrong with it, after all, it's a choice.

And don't start going on about women and children escaping war zones and abuse because it's not aimed at that tiny minority, most are young, single males seeking illegal work and money that is easier than at home.

>>The paucity of public services is a result of 12 years of Tory funding cuts.

Because 13 years ago services were great? Services are cut because those parts of the electorate not using them see no reason why they should contribute towards them. Ditto NHS, Embassies, Airport security, trains etc. etc, et,

>>So what? I have, in my time.

I signed on once. About 76 I think it must have been. The whole process was so mortifying and awful that I didn't go back. I care little for the habitually idle, but for those who genuinely need benefits it is a soul destroying process of begging.

>>We're talking about refugees, just as your ancestors were.

I think that mostly they are not. Google tells me that "Refugees are people who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country." Refugees should be welcomed and helped. Mostly though I think we're talking young, single men who wander off to seek their [hopefully easier] fortune.

>>As for those who aren't, but would like live here, immigration is overwhelmingly an economic benefit.

No, it is not. Neither overwhelmingly nor inevitably. It can be useful, it can be necessary and it can be appropriate, but let's not oversell it.

>>People don't come here for benefits, whatever the loony right might say, because life on benefits is miserable.

Even the Brexit crowd didn't seem sure whether the foreigner was coming here for our benefits or our jobs. It seemed to depend the day. I agree though. Ironically those who do seek benefits are typically the refugees who most deserve the help.

>>They want jobs, and we have more jobs than people to do them.

Yes. There are rather more thieves amongst them than I am comfortable with, but the majority are prepared to work for their money.

>>We NEED more working people to pay those taxes

Ah, well, there's the rub. Illegals tend not to pay tax.

>>yet it's those same ancient Britons who scream 'Lock them out!' the loudest. It's bizarre

Unless the said illegal has appeared on X-Factor in which case they will start a petition for them to be allowed to stay.

IMO we should
- allow anybody who wants to come here to do so
- refugees should be helped and supported
- economic migrants should not be financially helped and should be expected to work, pay taxes and be valuable.
- those economic migrants who have not sufficiently contributed should be expected to provide proof of health insurance
- breaking the law should be a drop kick through the door. No appeals.
- working illegally should also be a kick through the door with significant punishment for the employer
- illegal immigration should result n fingerprints and DNA being recorded and booted out of the country.
- a previous illegal should be denied entry for any reason for 10 years.

And my "pièce de résistance";

- Introduce UK ID cards, insist that any employer, service provider, health or education provider, DVLA or other Government department and anyone else I can think of refuses to deal with anybody who cannot provide that ID.

Refugees are a different category. It is clear from the media who are the people fleeing life threatening situations. Every one else is an economic migrant.

A young man from any below first-world country is almost certainly an economic migrant. This was the issue with Romania and Bulgaria joining the EU as much as it is with sub-Sarahan Africa. The women and children only leave when lives are seriously at risk.

If my mother / wife / sister / daughter was suffering in a social and political hell hole who would you expect me to leave behind?

If I simply wanted a better life *then* I would expect the young man to go ahead first. And that is one example at least of the difference between the position of a refugee (fleeing for safety) and an economic migrant (rather be somewhere else)

You're a clever and well travelled man, you know the situation as well as I do. We can all distort it with such examples.