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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 15:23:53 GMT
If he is unwilling to resign over breaking the law (which he wrote), I can well imagine a circumstance in which he holds on to power beyond his term if he sees an opportunity to do so. That is what unscrupulous nationalist leaders do. I see no reason to plead a special case because "Britain" or any other reason. It can happen here. We don't have the tools to prevent it. We have seen this government's absolute corruption and malevolence in plain sight. When they tell you who they are, believe them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 16:10:01 GMT
>>We have seen this government's absolute corruption and malevolence in plain sight.
Really? Well I know I live some distance away, but I haven't. No more than usual, anyway.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Apr 12, 2022 16:19:23 GMT
Have a look at their proposal for Channel 4. Nadine Dorries, whose ignorance and spite are visible from Mars, has tried to dress it up as ‘value for taxpayer money’. C4 receives no taxpayer money; she’s simply been caught out enacting her bosses’ revenge over C4’s accurate reporting of issues where the Tories have lied to get their way.
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Post by EspadaIII on Apr 12, 2022 16:23:41 GMT
Johnson is not Putin. Let's not get overly excited. No one is stealing an election or holding onto power.
He has been stupid perhaps should resign. But you want Starmer as PM? And rent a gob Angela Rayner is an embarrassment to those of us who live ooop North.
We need some form of stable government or we will look like a little country on the north west edge of Europe of little significance. Frankly I prefer to be relevant to the World and Boris does that more than SKS.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 16:31:56 GMT
Have a look at their proposal for Channel 4. Nadine Dorries, whose ignorance and spite are visible from Mars, has tried to dress it up as ‘value for taxpayer money’. C4 receives no taxpayer money; she’s simply been caught out enacting her bosses’ revenge over C4’s accurate reporting of issues where the Tories have lied to get their way. Ah, no, not really. The axe has been hanging over C4 for some considerable period of time, years in fact. And is nothing to do with some revenge conspiracy theory.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Apr 12, 2022 16:55:42 GMT
Putin was not Putin in 1999, at least as we know him now. But he was allowed to disregard the checks and balances that prevent dictatorship and now look. The Johnson rot must stop right now. But you want Starmer as PM? Well, yes. I realise putting an honest, competent person in Number 10 might seem a radical idea but I’m up for it. Why resort to whataboutery?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 17:28:20 GMT
>>Well, yes. I realise putting an honest, competent person in Number 10 might seem a radical idea but I’m up for it.
Hmmm, a lot of the problem when one elects a Labour politician is the bunch of idiots they tend to bring with them. And I'd have to say that whilst my impression is that Starmer is a decent chap I don't believe he has the wherewithal to hold either the Unions or the rest of his Party members in check or within reasonable guidelines. I agree that Starmer himself is better than Johnson, but the rest of them? meh, just different style of crap.
>>Why resort to whataboutery
Not really "whataboutery" when one considers the obvious alternative. Not that I think there's anything wrong with "whataboutery". That's generally and essentially a term used by people who believe that they can only 'win' their argument if they hold it within very narrow lines. It's just a way of deflecting something that they worry they may not be convincing against. Not that I am saying that is your motivation, just generally.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 8:34:58 GMT
>>We have seen this government's absolute corruption and malevolence in plain sight. Really? Well I know I live some distance away, but I haven't. No more than usual, anyway. Have you followed the PPE procurement stories? Corruption, writ large. Have you realised Johnson installed the son of a KGB operative in the House of Lords for financial reasons, and against the advice of our national security services? Corruption writ large. I could go on. Way, way more than usual, and way, way more significant and even potentially damaging to national security. This government has surpassed all its predecessors in quite some style when it comes to corruption and bad practice and bare faced lying to Parliament. It can't go on, and in no sane woirld can it be argued that to allow it to continue is our least worst option at this stage. I don't care what anyone thinks about Labour at the moment, for the record I am not a fan nor supporter as you know. But I'm going to celebrate like Fulham have finally won the Cup for the first time when it is replaced, by any other party or coalition. We need a reset, urgently, before it gets any worse. blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/government-corruption/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 10:15:53 GMT
Surely rather more incompetence and self-serving behaviour than *absolute* corruption, and no particular sign of malevolence.
I am most certainly not saying that it is a good Government, but I think you're overdoing the invective.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 10:49:59 GMT
You have to look to the Home Office and its leader for the best examples of malevolence. Then the refusal to do anything about the cost of living crisis we're facing.
We're well beyond "they're all the same" here. These are new depths to which a British government has never previously sunk.
Perhaps I should have said "manifest corruption" rather than "absolute corruption". But corruption appears to be at the heart of this government and its cabinet members.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 10:52:12 GMT
If he is unwilling to resign over breaking the law (which he wrote), ............ Has he broken the law? Don't misunderstand me I am not defending him at all, but I wonder what the legal position is. He has been issued a fixed penalty notice, not been found guilty of breaking the law. If he simply pays the fine, he remains a non-law breaker, or at least unconvicted. If he decides to argue it, it goes to court, and then he loses, he then becomes guilty of breaking the law. If it's occurred to me, I expect it has occurred to him. Whether or not even he would be brazen enough to rely on it is a secondary point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 10:55:13 GMT
You have to look to the Home Office and its leader for the best examples of malevolence. Then the refusal to do anythin gbaout the cost of living crisis we're facing. We're well beyond "they're all the same" here. These are new depths to which a British government has never previously sunk. Perhaps I should have said "manifest corruption" rather than "absolute corruption". But corruption appears to be at the heart of this government and its cabinet members. Manifest would have been better than absolute, for sure. But even then, I think far more is down to incompetence and a failure to follow the rules/proper steps because it is easier than deliberate corruption, though I have no doubt that some exists. Malevolence is again, I think, a step too far. That they don't care much is clear, but wish evil? No, I don't think so.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 11:10:47 GMT
I'd quote the "Hostile Environment" and its consequences as an example to substantiate my claims of malevolence, and the current Home Secretary's suggestions to investigate the use of wave machines to push back migrant boats in the Channel.
But fair enough, we can agree to differ. I appreciate you're not conferring support to any arm of the government.
I'm not retired, I post in haste as I'm reasonably busy with work, so I can't quite measure every word and post precisely (also accounts for my typos), so sometimes a blunter choice of word or phrase is deployed to get a point across than would otherwise be the case. However in the case of the current governmnt it's hard to imagine using softer language. They are an utter disgrace and represent an abject humiliation of my country.
It appears to be that case that the PM doesn't respect the rule of law, at least in so far as it applies to him. He is the first sitting PM to have transgressed in this way. I accept your point of detail around the FPN, but as he hasn't gone to court to challenge it I'll accept it as an admission of having broken the law, publicly. This is a sufficient bar, in my opinion, to preclude him from keeping his position in government any longer. However, if he nor his party act on that moral judgement, then remain he will as our feeble constitution can do nothing to prevent it. Thoughts then gently turn to "what's next..."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 14:56:41 GMT
>>the current Home Secretary's suggestions to investigate the use of wave machines to push back migrant boats in the Channel.
I hadn't heard that. To be honest that's more like evidence of a moronic and ridiculous human being than anything else.
>>They are an utter disgrace and represent an abject humiliation of my country.
Two points:
He's / they're not perceived that way, at least not here.
Politicians generally and worldwide are a disgrace.
>>However, if he nor his party act on that moral judgement, then remain he will as our feeble constitution can do nothing to prevent it. Thoughts then g
The trouble with that is that you cannot change the rules every time you don't like the result.
Far better to educate and generate interest in the electorate. At which time our current system would probably be fine.
Most revisions I hear seem to be oriented around how one can change elected leaders. Which is a dodgy point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 15:03:51 GMT
I'm talking about root and branch reform, PR, elected Upper House, elected HoS etc. Proper checks and balances.
Had you heard the Home Secretary's other suggestion to process asylum seekers off shore in Rwanda, Albania or Ascension Island? To make it illegal to enter the country without proper paperwork (a visa etc) even with the intention to claim asylum immediately on landing? Malevolent stuff, in contrvention of every accepted cvilised norm.
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