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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 14:27:29 GMT
I think you're missing my point.
If we stop Brexit then there will be noise from the people who wanted and voted for Brexit, noise from the people who whilst they may not have wanted Brexit will get all up in the air about the voting being effectively ignored, and the conspiracy people etc. etc.
That will be all over the tabloids and it won't go away. Not ever. And it will undermine, delay and prevent almost anything we want to get through parliament.
The ONLY way to stop Brexit and remain functional is to have a General Election where one party comes out strongly Leave and one comes out strongly Remain. If the Remain party wins, then they will be able to stop it. But that simply will not happen, no party will take that risk.
Consequently the only way to remain functional is to leave the EU and then put something exactly the same in it's place, but not call ourselves members.
I see we have agreed to be remain part of the EU airline group, Telecoms group and a few others. And that is how it will continue.
But we won't be members, and that single fact will keep us safe from the disruption driven by the tabloids and those who look at their pictures.
We should have remained and fixed the EU from within, for it surely needed fixing. Plan B should be to cause the same fixes, adopt the same changes, be part of the new framework, and not be members. The membership concept of the EU is not it's best bit anyway.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jun 22, 2018 6:11:44 GMT
The noise is inevitable but so what? The referendum was corrupt and invalid - an utter disgrace to our democracy - and we only make things worse by trying to honour the result. During the campaign, a Vote Leave leaflet came through my door citing Rolls-Royce, Airbus and Nissan as manufacturers who had stated they wouldn’t leave the UK if it left the EU, worded to imply that the firms backed Leave. They all disowned it, of course, and publicly backed Remain. Now: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44570931Leaving now makes sense only if it’s ‘in name only’. And even that comes a poor second to calling the whole disaster off. |
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Post by tyrednexited on Jun 26, 2018 13:58:05 GMT
....and the two posts above demonstrate the irony of the position we are in.
Cameron opened Pandora's box viz a viz the EU (and as a corollary, a number of other general societal issues, such as racism and/or xenophobia, which as a result have been largely legitimised).
It is patently obvious that the final position, whatever it is, won't please/satisfy everyone, and that there will remain a number of vocal minorities (or even majorities) sniping from the sidelines come March 2019.
But, the whole situation was precipitated by the perceived need to keep the Tory Europhobes happy, and stop them from fomenting further discord within the party. Both the posts above envisage largely leaving the EU, but retaining much of the trappings ('Brexit in name only'). The irony of supporting this as a resolution is that it will leave the very instigators of the whole issue as the least satisfied (and still sniping) bunch - so, the initial problem just won't go away.
Given this as an outcome, and the commensurate pain for the UK in trying to get there, I can't see that it is a 'solution' that any sane and level-headed poitician should be supporting.
In reality, we are well beyond the point where the first law of holes should have been invoked; I think business is finally beginning to realise that the lunatics really are in charge of the asylum; to date, there's been an element of disbelief that a UK government would ultimately effectively trash its economy by following through on its lack of direction and planning. Patently, large organisations have already been contingency planning (and the effects of that on inward investment are beginning to come to light), but the recent statements/actions from Airbus/BMW/L-R etc. indicate that the penny has dropped that the Government is far less economically literate than big business, lacks any cohesive plan, and might well be heading for an idealogically-precipitated (BR)exit.
If we are going to have a sh*t-storm (and I think we are), then I'd rather do it based largely on the status quo (and a viable economic near-future), rather than economic Armageddon, and it would be better to p*ss-off whoever it does against a more secure background.
BTW, Boris has yet again shown his colours on the Heathrow issue #unfitforoffice (contrast his behaviour with that of Greg Hands, who was apparently also given the "opportunity" to be out of the Country for the vote).
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jun 27, 2018 8:28:40 GMT
]]If we are going to have a sh*t-storm (and I think we are), then I'd rather do it based largely on the status quo (and a viable economic near-future), rather than economic Armageddon, and it would be better to p*ss-off whoever it does against a more secure background. More d*plomatically p*t than I'd have managed, T&E. The Leavers, in two years, have produced nothing. It was - and this must be true because Redwood, Davis and Mogg all told us - the easiest piece of international negotiation the UK would ever have to do. |
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Post by tyrednexited on Jun 27, 2018 9:12:14 GMT
More d*plomatically p*t than I'd have managed, T&E. ....th*nk y*u.  |
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Post by WDB on Jul 9, 2018 7:23:58 GMT
🎵 It’s coming apart, it’s coming apart,
It’s coming apart, it’s coming...
Brexit’s coming apart... 🎶
I’ve never seen fudge unravel; didn’t actually know it could. But it does require careful cooking up of ingredients that don’t naturally combine, and if you get that wrong you get an irredeemable mess that’s no use to anyone.
In particular, how was the customs idea ever supposed to work? Collect one rate at Dover for UK-bound goods and another for those just passing through to Ireland? How do you do that and maintain any kind of throughput?
Now that Leave’s corruption is a matter of record, it’s time for Labour and what’s left of the Tory Remainers to stop this pretence of ‘honouring’ the result where no honour exists. Labour can tell its supporters who voted Leave that they were the victims of a crime, and fight the looming election on a true Remain platform. The Leavers are retreating in disarray. It’s time to push them all the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 8:55:22 GMT
The only problem with that strategy is that Labour might win and the economy will be destroyed even quicker than Brexit would.
Don't get me wrong. I voted remain but we need some leadership that recognises that the referendum was advisory and we should have used it to push for an improved EU not simply to leave asap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 14:33:59 GMT
Johnson out.
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Post by Humph on Jul 9, 2018 16:06:49 GMT
For now he is. It's where he reappears that I'm worried about. If May goes... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 16:14:16 GMT
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jul 16, 2018 5:58:23 GMT
Justine Greening proposes a second referendum, this time with the kind of structure that means people will be able to say truthfully, “I know what I voted for.” www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44840154 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:58:47 GMT
Good
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 7:27:23 GMT
Except a three way referendum (out without a deal; out with a deal; or remain) is going to be hard to get a clear result from. What happens if its 10% for a no deal exit and 40% each for the others?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 9:10:05 GMT
Second preference votes.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jul 17, 2018 9:57:15 GMT
If no one choice has a simple majority of first preferences, the third-placed option is eliminated and the winner will be the one with the highest aggregate of firsts and seconds.
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