Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 15:45:21 GMT
What's it like driving around in what is, I presume, an almost silent vehicle? Does it make road noise and other road users more obvious?
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Post by lygonos on Sept 10, 2017 16:18:34 GMT
Think the LEAF makes a low whistle noise audible from outside until about 20mph when tyre roar is sufficient.
My B Class makes a droning noise to the same speed.
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Post by Humph on Sept 10, 2017 16:25:28 GMT
I followed a new McLaren through our town last night. That sounded good. I opened my sunroof just to hear it better. It neither whistled, nor indeed, did it drone. Thank the Lord.
;-)
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Post by crankcase on Sept 10, 2017 16:43:02 GMT
Leaf makes a low speed whistle by default, but you can turn it off. You have to do that each time if you care. Zoe has a choice of three whistles or none, but again, defaults to on each time.
Actually, at anything above about ten, EVs sound the same inside and out, pretty much, as an ice anyway. Predominant sound is tyres and headwind.
New EU legislation due in a year or two will make it not possible to turn off the low speed pedestrian warning sound on new cars sold after whatever date.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 17:26:05 GMT
Wot CC said, except I'm not hearing no whistling or nuffink. I've had a few people jump in surprise along my pavement-less street as I creep up behind them. Am actively paying more attention to people on pavements in case they step out without looking.
Tyre and road noise is there above 20mph or so. Pulling away in silence though is a joy.
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Post by crankcase on Sept 10, 2017 18:39:46 GMT
Ah, then your Leaf may be in that batch that has no sound? Wikipedia has the gen on it, but basically at the time(about 2014) Nissan disabled the sound to comply with some arcane bit of UK traffic law. Then they decided that wasn't required, so later Leafs have the switch and the sound is on by default. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds#Nissan |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 10, 2017 22:29:57 GMT
The Passat GTE I tried did not emit a sound when running in electric mode. Pretty silent. At 60mph it sounded like it did on petrol engine alone, i.e. mostly tyre noise.
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Post by lygonos on Sept 10, 2017 23:07:48 GMT
Now here is an issue that no-one seems to be considering. Lets take cobham services as an example as the busiest and biggest "fueler" of cars. It has 36 pumps, and often queuing is required to fill up. Say each "fuel"takes 5 minutes, that is a throughput rate of 432 fillups per hour. To achieve that rate with Teslas (assuming a 30 minute top up) you are going to need 864 charging points and a grid feed of, wait for it, 126megawatts, so that means building a power station the size of ferrybridge a next to it.
How many of these 432 cars per hour start the day with a full tank?
By the time most of the cars/trucks on the road are EVs they will be charged when you get in whether by home charging or streetside charging overnight.
432 cars taking say 40 litres each = a full tanker's worth of juice being needed every 2 hours.
Not really a typical service station is it?
And with electric cars needing very little extensive infrastructure at each charge point (the Grid is ubiquitous after all) don't you think the way cars recharge will not mimic how it happens today, especially as not many people have their own petrol/diesel pump at home. Not exactly stretching the bounds of human ingenuity having lots of metered charging dotted around the country.
And by having variable pricing at the stations, demand can be manipulated as it is for refuelling ICE today - 30p/unit at MSS, 20p/unit in town, 15p/unit at supermarket, 10p/unit overnight slow recharge, etc.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 11, 2017 6:08:41 GMT
Don't be silly, Lygo. The charging infrastructure and technology will remain exactly as the naysayers tell us. In ten years' time, people will still have to charge their cars from an extension cable plugged into a light socket, with an old towel over into protect it from next door's dog. Why on earth would infrastructure expand to support a rapidly expanding new technology? Look at mobile phones: everyone has one now, but you still have to check network maps before you buy to see where you'll be able to use it - don't you? It's not like the phone companies saw the demand and installed a mast in every neighbourhood.
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Post by crankcase on Sept 11, 2017 8:05:59 GMT
Talking of infrastructure, it's good to see that at least in Scotland, EV drivers are beginning to be taken a bit more seriously. Chargers at present are sometimes an afterthought, stuffed into odd corners, or alternatively, often put in motorway service stations right by the doors in prime slots (cos they factor in the cost of laying the cable and that's near as they can get to the source) where inevitably they get ice cars parked in them. So in Dundee, they are taking an old yard and turning it into an EV "hub". I know Tesla already have separate little supercharging stations for six cars, or whatever, but this is for everyone. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-40874569Has a solar roof too, which will be just about enough to work a coffee machine I would think in Dundee, but the thought is there. |
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Post by Hofmeister on Sept 11, 2017 8:24:46 GMT
Now here is an issue that no-one seems to be considering. Lets take cobham services as an example as the busiest and biggest "fueler" of cars. It has 36 pumps, and often queuing is required to fill up. Say each "fuel"takes 5 minutes, that is a throughput rate of 432 fillups per hour. To achieve that rate with Teslas (assuming a 30 minute top up) you are going to need 864 charging points and a grid feed of, wait for it, 126megawatts, so that means building a power station the size of ferrybridge a next to it.
How many of these 432 cars per hour start the day with a full tank? Not many, but they start the day off with a similar range. By the time most of the cars/trucks on the road are EVs they will be charged when you get in whether by home charging or streetside charging overnight. How many homes can take a charge point. Terraces houses, blocks of flats, nearly every home london for example. 432 cars taking say 40 litres each = a full tanker's worth of juice being needed every 2 hours. The tanks hold 1.3 million litres of fuel and took a week to fill. Yes at times they do indeed get a tanker every two hours. Not really a typical service station is it?
It exists, I'm sorry 100% EVs replacing our current car ownership scenario does not work when it hits real life. Something will have to change, our car owning habits or the fuel used.
And with electric cars needing very little extensive infrastructure at each charge point (the Grid is ubiquitous after all)
No its not, as I said there is not 126 megawatts available where you need it. A power station and 864 charging points take a lot of space.
And by having variable pricing at the stations, demand can be manipulated as it is for refuelling ICE today - 30p/unit at MSS, 20p/unit in town, 15p/unit at supermarket, 10p/unit overnight slow recharge, etc.
So one of your solutions is road pricing, we all know it will probably arrive in one form or another, Thats a good one for sure, and probably one of the fairest and easiest to invoke. |
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 11, 2017 8:29:43 GMT
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Post by Hofmeister on Sept 11, 2017 8:32:40 GMT
Don't be silly, Lygo. The charging infrastructure and technology will remain exactly as the naysayers tell us. In ten years' time, people will still have to charge their cars from an extension cable plugged into a light socket, with an old towel over into protect it from next door's dog. Why on earth would infrastructure expand to support a rapidly expanding new technology? Look at mobile phones: everyone has one now, but you still have to check network maps before you buy to see where you'll be able to use it - don't you? It's not like the phone companies saw the demand and installed a mast in every neighbourhood. Well you best hope they get charging EVs wirelessly sorted out by mobile phone masts pretty quickly then. In another 30 years they might just have got 100% national coverage. |
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Post by crankcase on Sept 11, 2017 12:55:36 GMT
While all this argy-bargy about the future has been going on here, just to say we've just had a pleasant run out to Wimpole Hall, had a nice walk, a cup of National Trust coffee and a shortbread biscuit, dropped in on Tesco on the way home and put another 45 miles on the Zoe (about £1, no local co2). Nice day for it.
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Post by lygonos on Sept 11, 2017 14:36:30 GMT
While all this argy-bargy about the future has been going on here, just to say we've just had a pleasant run out to Wimpole Hall, had a nice walk, a cup of National Trust coffee and a shortbread biscuit, dropped in on Tesco on the way home and put another 45 miles on the Zoe (about £1, no local co2). Nice day for it. Monday holiday here.
Took the kids into Edinburgh, parked for free at a charge point (well £2 for all-day parking at the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Gallery_of_Modern_Art with free 3.6kW recharging), went for a nice lunch and walked round the Botanics.
Came back home - able to talk to family with quiet voice on the Motorway.
Fuel cost nil.
It'll never catch on.
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