Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 13:38:59 GMT
Here's one we've been pondering at work last week with the shift from diesel underway why is electric the answer?
There are what? About 20 million homes in the UK and electric is the worst answer to the heating question. Why would I choose to run a car on electric but not my house?
nPower have announced a 15% rise in electricity prices for those not on a fixed tariff is that an indication of price rises to be experienced for away from home charging?
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Feb 5, 2017 0:08:54 GMT
"....why is electric the answer?"
Many of us think it isn't - certainly not yet. Battery technology is getting there with range getting near to 300 miles - but the charging infrastructure is nowhere near it. And EVs are at their best in towns and cities, where most people have to park in the street: how are you supposed to charge then? Overnight with the cable out of a ground-floor window (Ah, Burglar, my dear fellow. Do come in!)?
For an EV to work you need (a) a commute where you can charge at home every night, and (b) another car for doing longer journeys. Personally even then I wouldn't want, for example, a VW e-Up costing £25k, more than twice the price of a petrol Up, or a Nissan Leaf which after 3 years will be worth 17% of what it cost new, according to What Car.
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Post by lygonos on Feb 7, 2017 20:08:05 GMT
As you may have noticed on c4p I have ordered an EV.
Mercedes B250e with Premium and Range Plus packs for just over £20k (via drivethedeal.com)
With a 6 years 0% loan via the Scottish Govt.
I have the benefit of a driveway, 3-phase electricity supply, and the gaffer's FRV for family holiday duties.
I sold my Kizashi for £8k (losing just over £4k in the 3 years I had it which was better than I expected it would do)
In those 3 years I probably drove over 80 miles in one stint 2 or 3 times in the Kizashi.
Reasonable provision of charging network around me, although I appreciate that's not universal across the UK.
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Post by Hofmeister on Feb 7, 2017 20:29:53 GMT
Just out of interest, did your dealer have one available for a test drive, so you could checkout how it drives?
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 7, 2017 22:25:55 GMT
What range does it claim? And what's the technology: pure electric?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 22:46:27 GMT
Do you have a backup car? Have you driven an electric motor on snow and ice?
My wife has an Auris hybrid, the final drive comes from an electric motor.
On black ice a fully laden car twists and squirms, made worse with electric motor(s) controlling the steering rack.
Maximum torque, zero revs, electric power steering & black ice = twitchy drive.
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Post by lygonos on Feb 8, 2017 0:08:10 GMT
Edinburgh had a blue one with 'Electric Art' stickers on the doors and 18" wheels (now sold) but they're like hen's teeth in dealerships.
Drives how you want it to go - can go like stink (testers in the US see 0-60 under 7 secs despite MB's claim of 7.9s) if you don't need to worry about range - overtakes very nicely at motorway speeds unlike Zoe/LEAF - and can creep along as slow as you like.
Typical range is around 80-100 miles (Tesla motor and 36kWh battery pack (28 usuable normally, 32ish if using range mode when charging) - range mode adds and extra 15-20 miles. Apparently you get best range by ensuring the battery is warm when you set off.
Has 3 driving modes - Sport is full bhuna 180hp, Eco is 132hp, and Eco+ is 83hp with top speed limited to 68mph (overridable by kickdown)
Regen is cotrolled by flappy paddles - lots/some/none.
Not suitable for all as it has NO DC charging capability - it has a Tesla AC charger unit that can handle a maximum of 16A current - so 3.6kW from single-phase AC (ie typical 230v household mains) or 11kW from 3-phase AC (which I have at home). This means the fastest it can charge is around 40-50miles of driving per hour of charging.
This is a deal-breaker for many and may explain why so few have sold (not to mention the lack of advertising from MB) and I guess why there are huge discounts on them. Of course there is likely to be a new MB EV in the pipeline, which I expect will have rapid DC charge capability and perhaps a bigger battery.
My daily commute is 10 miles return journey plus housevisits/going for lunch (maybe another 10 miles) - I expect to need to charge it about twice per week and there are plenty of 22kW+ charging posts (from which the MB will draw 11kW) within a few miles of my home/workplace and one right next to where I usually have lunch.
Most charge points are free to use in Scotland through the "Charge Your Car" scheme.
We have a Honda FRV for family travel, and I also have a 16yr old Forester Turbo S at least until I get the B-Class (probably in May) |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Feb 8, 2017 0:27:43 GMT
>> With a 6 years 0% loan via the Scottish Govt.
With a 6 year 0% loan I'd have got the Tesla Model S 60.
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Post by lygonos on Feb 8, 2017 0:46:23 GMT
Max they'll lend is £35k (think it was £50k initially)
Not sure I want to sink 62 grand into a car (before options)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 9:39:33 GMT
If it has a Tesla motor, how come it can't have Tesla battery capacity and the associated 200 miles+ range?
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Feb 8, 2017 13:56:44 GMT
Probably because it needs somewhere to store the batteries and it's based on a conventional car so can't do what the Tesla does - have them in the chassis. You're not going to be able to have them stacked where the engine would go.
I wonder how much storage is actually available on the B250e? Presumably there's some extra storage space where the engine would normally be.
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Post by lygonos on Feb 8, 2017 14:26:20 GMT
Daimler-Benz used to have a small shareholding (about 4% iirc) in Tesla, and there was/is a fair degree of parts sharing.
Presumably there is a deal where MB can't make a direct competitor to Tesla's products until MB is using its own in-house mechanicals/batteries.
The B series has a sandwich floor and the batteries fit in that space and where the fuel tank would go. It doesn't have room for a 60+kWh pack, and as for performance, it has enough for a FWD - any more and it would need AWD and I doubt there is room for a rear motor on the current platform.
It's the size of a Honda Civic - a Tesla Model S is bigger than a BMW 5-series
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 14:44:53 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 13:27:56 GMT
Here's a thing. you can buy this electric vehicle for under £3k. And I bet he'd take £2k to get shot.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201701261677895
Catch: Battery lease applies. Hmm. Well, looking at his table I'd want the £103 a month option to cover my mileage. That's less than half my monthly diesel costs. So, this has got to be just about the biggest automotive bargain out there, hasn't it? A nearly new full size saloon car for, say, £2.5k to purchase which only costs a fixed £100/month to run in lieu of fuel costs?
Would you rather have that Fluence or a £2.5k diesel Mondeo, which would be what, 12 years old and would cost me £200 to fuel every month plus servicing?
£2.5k is almost disposable car money, so the battery lease in lieu of fuel costs is neither here nor there. Run it for three years, who cares if it's worthless after that?
What am I missing? It has a 100 mile range, so it'd be fine for my day-to-day running, and I'd always keep a second car anyway, so that one can be diesel/petrol for longer trips.
P.S. spare me the Renault bashing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 13:46:09 GMT
The battery lease is not in lieu of fuel costs, the batteries still need to be loaded.
The UK Government have signed contracts to pay £92.50 per megawatt hour to overseas backers when the wholesale market price was £38/MWh. I can't see the wider electricity market shouldering the costs for private motorists.
EVs look great at the moment but you've got to ask yourself how sustainable it is.
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