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Post by lygonos on Feb 9, 2017 14:31:55 GMT
That's the rate being offered for Hinckley C isn't it?
Who knows where energy prices will be in 15-20years when it starts making electricity (if it ever does)
As battery costs come down further, increasingly sustainable I imagine.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 14:39:55 GMT
Well yeah, fair point Backpfeifengesicht, but the cost to charge the vehicle off the mains is pretty negligible. Pound a day? Battery lease is in lieu of the vast majority of fuel costs.
If the car is only costing £2.5k to buy, surely we've identified here an extremely cost effective way of running a nice car for the foreseeable future? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 15:08:53 GMT
Oh yeah. No VED either. Compare again to a 12 year old Mondeo diesel.
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Post by Hofmeister on Feb 9, 2017 15:27:44 GMT
That's the rate being offered for Hinckley C isn't it? Who knows where energy prices will be in 15-20years when it starts making electricity (if it ever does) As battery costs come down further, increasingly sustainable I imagine. Battery costs have never been an issue, they are and have always been (in the scheme of things automotive and technological) as cheap as chips. Over a hundred years on since they were first used to move people around, they have still not cracked the range and charge issues, and frankly look no closer to doing so. Until someone makes a car that can be bought and used as the only car required for the average family motoring scenario, they will stay niche. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 15:30:45 GMT
A lot of households have two cars. That's quite a big niche.
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Post by Hofmeister on Feb 9, 2017 15:52:14 GMT
A lot of households have two cars. That's quite a big niche. 23% Thats niche. We are not representative on here, being rather more affluent and techno/auto savy than most. |
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Post by commerdriver on Feb 9, 2017 15:59:33 GMT
That's the rate being offered for Hinckley C isn't it? Who knows where energy prices will be in 15-20years when it starts making electricity (if it ever does) As battery costs come down further, increasingly sustainable I imagine. Battery costs have never been an issue, they are and have always been (in the scheme of things automotive and technological) as cheap as chips. Over a hundred years on since they were first used to move people around, they have still not cracked the range and charge issues, and frankly look no closer to doing so. Until someone makes a car that can be bought and used as the only car required for the average family motoring scenario, they will stay niche. Other major customer set I am seeing for electric cars is the company car market at the moment. I know of 6 colleagues who have recently (all the cars are 15 or 66 reg) gone for either plug in hybrids or in 2 cases pure electric cars (1 Tesla and 1 BMW) because of the phenomenal savings on company car tax. Latest one got his BMW 3 series plug in hybrid on Monday replacing a 330d coupe reckoned it would but his costs by over 6K a year. To be fair most of these people have family access to other vehicles but the two electrics are being used every working day every week as the main company car to travel to the client site. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 16:05:11 GMT
A lot of households have two cars. That's quite a big niche. 23% Thats niche. We are not representative on here, being rather more affluent and techno/auto savy than most. OK. Niche implies something far smaller than a quarter to me. 5% or so would be niche to me. A quarter sounds pretty mainstream. |
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Post by lygonos on Feb 9, 2017 16:05:50 GMT
Considering the manufacturing cost for an engine is less than £1000, and Li-ion batteries still cost £150-200 per kWh, I think I'll disagree with that one.
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Post by Hofmeister on Feb 9, 2017 16:34:11 GMT
23% Thats niche. We are not representative on here, being rather more affluent and techno/auto savy than most. OK. Niche implies something far smaller than a quarter to me. 5% or so would be niche to me. A quarter sounds pretty mainstream. Dont ever go into marketing or sales. |
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Post by Hofmeister on Feb 9, 2017 16:37:52 GMT
Considering the manufacturing cost for an engine is less than £1000, and Li-ion batteries still cost £150-200 per kWh, I think I'll disagree with that one. You miss the costs of developing out and equipping for NVH, fuel delivery systems, exhaust systems, pollution control systems, etc etc etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 17:12:34 GMT
Oh yeah. No VED either. Compare again to a 12 year old Mondeo diesel. No VED in the UK, yet (unless you drive one costing more than £40k in which case that'll be £310/year for the next 5 years from 1st April please). Over here EVs pay road tax based on kerb weight and batteries are not light. Some interesting reading here: www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/veh02-licensed-cars#table-veh0256Look at table veh0256. Almost 1/5th 19.3% of all new cars in 2015 paid zero VED. 20.3% paid £20. With almost 40% of vehicles contributing next to nothing tax wise into the Treasury is it any wonder the Treasury are not releasing the required funds back to pay for repairs to the road network? |
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Post by lygonos on Feb 9, 2017 17:51:53 GMT
And you missed out the lack of economies of scale selling a few hundred/thousand electric cars into each market.
6+ grand per car buys a lot of NVH/emissions/etc
(although I read VW are pulling out of their 1.5 litre turbodiesel plans and going low capacity petrol-hybrid instead, as the emissions gear costs as much as the engine itself to manufacture)
And comparing milk floats with lead-acid batteries requiring charging overnight, with cars that can travel 300 miles on a charge and recharge 200 miles of that in 40 minutes suggests a fair improvement.
Technology exists to charge without cables, and rapid charging at 250kW plus is being developed (which would add 200 miles of driving range in under 15 minutes).
It's not going to be cheap and the developers are not going to turn a profit for a very long time without significant subsidies.
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Post by Hofmeister on Feb 9, 2017 19:59:13 GMT
And you missed out the lack of economies of scale selling a few hundred/thousand electric cars into each market. The batteries are not specifically made for cars. and gearboxes, and cooling systems and and and More on that further on NOT. Snails have actually evolved further and faster in that time. Not the required high KW it doesn't. (well it does naturally, but it usually involves death destruction and fires) |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Feb 9, 2017 20:32:36 GMT
The Tesla Model S currently uses Panasonic sourced batteries/cells. They are 18650's and used in other applications.
But the larger capacity Tesla Model S uses 7104 of the things and they weight over 340kg in total. Plus the weight associated to the battery pack they sit in. But that many batteries don't come cheap. And they need assembling into battery packs.
Smaller capacity cars will obviously have fewer battery packs and therefore fewer 18650 batteries.
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