bpg
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Post by bpg on May 10, 2022 21:33:59 GMT
I'd hope it's mainly down to cheapest wire going but yes, spare socket, I'll just plug a 2kW kettle in and have a cuppa while I'm waiting will usually do it.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2022 7:45:35 GMT
I’ve not managed to turn up the source document from the IEC but this extract is quoted in numerous places:
A cord extension set or second cable assembly shall not be used in addition to the cable assembly for the connection of the EV to EVSE. (EVSE is Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment.)
BPG has the expertise here, of course, and may be able to give us a better citation.
Presumably, even if you can satisfy all Elch’s stipulations about quality and deployment, the simple fact of increasing the length of cable will add some resistance, and hence some more unwanted heat. Multiply that by the many hours it takes to draw a useful amount of current, and consider that, almost by definition, this is in a location that wasn’t designed for this kind of use, and Don’t Do It seems like the only reasonable advice.
There is another option, of course. The Ioniq 5 has Vehicle To Load capability. So all Esp needs is another Ioniq 5 and he can run his three-pin charger from that. 😛
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Post by EspadaIII on May 11, 2022 12:00:48 GMT
Ha!
Actually all that did go through my mind and I think I have discovered I can reduce the 'draw' during charging. But assuming I can get another 20kwh into the car at the 75 mile point I shall be relaxed... It maybe the car is so close to the house that I can use the granny lead directly anyway.
If I do I have decided that it would be unfair to charge the car without compensating the owners of the cottage so I will leave them some money.
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Post by Humph on May 11, 2022 12:35:33 GMT
Or, take a proper car… 😈
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2022 13:05:42 GMT
…I have decided that it would be unfair to charge the car without compensating the owners of the cottage so I will leave them some money. It won’t be much. Even at today’s prices you’ll struggle to draw more than a pound’s worth each hour.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on May 11, 2022 13:26:18 GMT
There is an assumption that the wiring to the socket in the house used with the granny charger is also up to it. This is another reason I gave up on the idea. When you get a callbox that it wired correctly to the main box and you know it's been done properly.
It might be okay running some multi kW device off a socket in the house for a bit but maybe not overnight.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2022 13:38:22 GMT
>> Don’t Do It seems like the only reasonable advice.
Why would you think a wire in the wall is more or less safe than an extension lead and more or less safe than a specially installed installation? All of them will do the job perfectly well if they appropriately installed and rated, all will fail if they are not.
Frankly if I was worried about overloading, the hidden wiring buried in a house construction would worry me a lot more than the modern extension lead I could see at my feet.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2022 13:43:16 GMT
A household ring circuit ought to be rated for a lot more than 13A, so if you’re worried about plugging in a car charger, you probably shouldn’t be plugging anything into it.
The issue here is design specifications and keeping usage within them. A purpose-made 13A charger plugged into a correctly installed ring circuit will cause no problem. It’s bodges like extension cables we ought to avoid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2022 13:53:38 GMT
>>A household ring circuit ought to be rated for a lot more than 13A
30a, probably. Though it obviously depends on many things, including how well it's been installed, how old it is and what's been done to it since - the dreaded amateur spurs for example.
I don't understand why you think an extension lead is necessarily a bodge. A UK 3 pin plug is limited to 13amps, there are many extension leads which can carry that constantly without issue. The problem with generally endorsing their usage is that there are also many which are not of sufficient quality, damaged, or not used correctly by idiots.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2022 13:55:04 GMT
>> if you’re worried about plugging in a car charger, you probably shouldn’t be plugging anything into it.
Generally I find that whether or not people are worried is unrelated to whether or not they should be worried.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2022 14:23:29 GMT
Can’t argue with your last point! (See also, Brexit: it’ll be fine.)
I would dispute that I said ‘necessarily’ a bodge because I accept that it could be done properly. It would probably require a much bigger gauge of wire than anything you could buy from Robert Dyas, to keep the extra length from adding too much heat-producing resistance.
An EV charger is an unusual case, in that it’s a constant high draw — that’s all it’s there to do — whereas a washing machine or even a thermostatic heater will tend to cycle its draw on and off. The wire on the Hyundai cable is probably overspecified for precisely that reason. I doubt there’s an IEC specification for a cable you could safely extend it with, so it would have to be something custom-made. And given all that, ‘Just don’t’ is the only sensible advice.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on May 11, 2022 15:44:10 GMT
My point about the house wiring is if it's been there a while and you had nothing to do with the installation you just don't know. Running something at 13A when you're using it or nearby for a few hours I'd have no problem with. Charging a car for a long time when asleep though?
I almost purchased a heavy duty cable with a waterproof socket to charge the 330e (which would have been a straight cable that you didn't wind onto a reel) but plugging it all in and then having to pack it all away hours later. Plus it takes a while to charge even a small battery from a domestic socket.
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Post by dixinormus on May 11, 2022 19:19:45 GMT
Pulled up to the wrong side of the pump after a long tiring day the other day. Lucky I didn’t need an extension lead to fill up the car 😛
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2022 19:48:14 GMT
>>And given all that, ‘Just don’t’ is the only sensible advice.
No. It is advice given for the lowest common denominator case. It is not 'sensible advice', it is a simplistic statement at best.
Sensible advice would be along the lines of "using an extension cable is perfectly fine if you do it properly".
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2022 20:19:44 GMT
There are layers of this, as you know. ‘Sensible’ one-to-one advice might cover all the aspects of cable gauge and routing, the importance of non-coiling and correct circuit protection. And in that context, a ring circuit is itself a kind of extension from the consumer unit, so a hefty-enough extension, supposing you could buy or make one, is just a continuation of that.
But in the world of standards, especially as applied to consumer devices, it’s got to be idiot-proof. And there are always bigger and better idiots out there, who might need the threat of an invalidated warranty or insurance policy to rein them in.
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