bpg
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Post by bpg on May 11, 2022 21:04:16 GMT
Lowest common denominator being what these manuals have to be written for.
Today it's relatively affluent families leasing or buying these cars and having modern up to date wallboxes and wiring installed. No issue.
Fast forward five years and someone living in a 1950s prefab where the concept of electric cars and loading circuits for hours on end who perhaps don't have the disposable income for a dedicated wallbox. That is where the guidance is aimed. Thinking 2025 onwards not 2022.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 11, 2022 21:28:21 GMT
Or, to bring it back to 2022, I'll use Rob as an example. He can park near his house and run an extension lead over the footpath to charge his car. Rob, being a sensible chap, uses a rubber cable bridge to protect the cable and prevent anyone triping over the cable. He might even have a traffic cone as an extra warning.
Dave on the other hand doesn't give it a second thought, it's only a charging cable. Someone trips over the cable, the brown stuff hits the fan. Dave's defence, XYZ motor company didn't write in their manual I couldn't do it.
Lowest common denominator. Car companies are very conservative when it comes to risk.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2022 21:59:31 GMT
…prevent anyone triping over the cable. Quite right. Dangerous stuff, tripe, and on no account to be allowed near electricity. There are parallels here with non-prescription medicines. This week, I’m taking paracetamol to deal with a cold. (Remember colds? They were terribly fashionable until about, oh, 2020.) The packet allows me no more than four doses of two tablets each day, so that’s all I take. My friend who is barely half my body mass would be allowed the same. The dose has to be safe for a 55kg adult as for a 105kg one. I value my liver more than my short-term comfort, so I don’t propose to test the boundaries.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on May 11, 2022 22:00:34 GMT
Except Rob never did this although he thought about it. Seemed too much risk for the time needed to fully charge it. For quite some time I could have worked in the car and charged it for free at the Tesco I suppose.
Something else with BEVs I hadn't thought of until yesterday but I had for keyless entry in 2014. Pacemakers. The manual of the Mazda6 mentioned a risk with pacemakers due to keyless entry. Tried looking into it (mother-in-law had one) and got nowhere. In the end I preferred the Audi A3 for a few other reasons over the Mazda6 (DSG petrol vs diesel manual and also the infotainment) so problem avoided. Now there is a concern about BEVs especially about charging... possibility of a risk that means you should not plug in the BEV or be in it when charging.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 12, 2022 6:25:09 GMT
Seems easy to work around. No current flows until the car is locked, which can be done from a very safe distance.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 12, 2022 11:44:56 GMT
Did my first 'fast charge' yesterday at a local motorway service station - just to see how it all worked. A GridServe machine supposedly able to provide 120kWh at £0.385/kW. Only gave me 38kWh (same as the guy in the MG EV next to me) but was very easy to use and to download a VAT receipt from the website.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 12, 2022 11:56:19 GMT
You know what’s coming, Esp. This time I really don’t understand your quantities. 🤓 Try again please!
Energy required: (kWh) Advertised rate: (kW) Advertised unit price: (£ / kWh) Actual amount: (kWh) Actual charging rate: (kW)
Anyway, good thing to have a practice to learn the routine before you have to do it in earnest. It’s really no harder than using a petrol pump, just a different routine. And you’ll do it far less often, so it never quite becomes second nature.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 12, 2022 11:58:43 GMT
How full was the battery when you started ? You'll only see max charge rate over 20% up to about 40-45% after which it will start throttling back.
I don't think pacemakers are an issue as manufacturers are now promoting the vehicles as mobile offices. Obviously, if you have one or know someone who does then you/they would be well advised to speak to their cardiac specialist.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 12, 2022 13:38:39 GMT
You know what’s coming, Esp. This time I really don’t understand your quantities. 🤓 Try again please! Energy required: (kWh) Advertised rate: (kW) Advertised unit price: (£ / kWh) Actual amount: (kWh) Actual charging rate: (kW) Anyway, good thing to have a practice to learn the routine before you have to do it in earnest. It’s really no harder than using a petrol pump, just a different routine. And you’ll do it far less often, so it never quite becomes second nature. You know I did maths, physics and chemistry at A-level (almost 40 years ago) and have a science degree but somehow I can't get my head around kW and kWh. Surely my battery holds 73kW? and if it delivers 1kW in an hour that is the speed of the delivery? Anyway the battery was 50% full when I started and I took it up to 60% for £3.10. So a full charge would have cost £31 which would take me say 250 miles. My Mercedes would have required about 38 litres for the same distance, so £64 minimum at current prices.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 12, 2022 14:16:27 GMT
Your battery stores electrical energy, about 260 megajoules of it. Consuming (or converting) that to drive a load at a rate of 1 kJ/s (aka 1kW) would take about 262,000 seconds, or about 73 hours. Hence a capacity of 73 kWh.
Conversely, charging that battery from empty would take 73 hours at 1kW, or 0.73h at a true 100kW. A watt is a unit of rate, a joule per second. A kilowatt hour multiplies out the time divisor to give a quantity of energy, 3.6 MJ
The energy comparison is the one I keep mentioning in the context of petrol and diesel engines. Your old Mercedes, and the one I still have, carry around 3,000 MJ to achieve a useful range, 12 times as much energy as your Hyundai battery.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 12, 2022 15:38:17 GMT
Thanks - I think I understand that. I have spent too long away from that arena of knowledge. At least Joule was a good Mancunian (born in Salford, died in Sale in 1989).
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Post by crankcase on May 12, 2022 18:26:23 GMT
Maybe one of you whizzes can explain to me what my "driving data" is telling me about my phev?
If I go somewhere that just uses the battery, as I did today, it tells me that I travelled 18 miles, my mpg (I used no petrol) was 313.9 mpg, and then it tells me that was 27kWh/100 miles battery consumption.
Yesterday I did a much longer journey, so used fuel For that one, I got a total distance of 254 miles, 64.2 mpg and 3kWh/100 miles battery consumption.
I'm used to EVs telling me I use 3-5 kWKKhKws or whatever they are, per mile. I can understand that. I can't get my head round what the Skoda is telling me though. Any clues?
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 12, 2022 20:20:39 GMT
313.9mpg is more than 8 miles/kWh*.
Edit: * assuming E5 petrol is used. The best I've seen with our BEV, optimal temperature, no aircon, no heating, radio on is 6.2 miles/kWh, currently averaging 4.5 miles/kWh.
Did you start from the top of a very long hill ?
Edit: 27kWh/100 miles is 3.7 miles/kWh
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 12, 2022 20:53:34 GMT
I suspect your mpg is being calculated in a similar way to ICE calculating distance to empty based on the last however many miles travelled and driving style.
If you do a lot of short journeys on battery only the mpg will rise because you're not using any petrol. As soon as the motor kicks in the mpg tumbles. They're not road miles you can get from burning one gallon of fuel in the engine.
For your short day to day trips using battery only it's the kWh/miles travelled you're interested in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 7:48:02 GMT
God alone knows, all I'm sure of is that at worst the fuel for an EV is around half the price of petrol, mile for mile, and at best significantly cheaper than that, and sometimes zero. So I'm not that bothered about confusing myself trying to understand the sciences behind it all.
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