WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 4, 2022 9:23:32 GMT
Time to let go of the Corbyn canard. The choice at the 2019 was the worst the UK electorate has been offered in living memory, but Johnson’s Tories were still the wrong option. They were always going to get the votes of the bigots and know-nothings, but there was an opportunity to limit the damage instead of handing them the kind of majority that’s given Johnson his delusions of invincibility.
Can you point to a single thing in British politics that’s got better since 2019?
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Post by EspadaIII on Feb 4, 2022 10:15:28 GMT
We've been going downhill since 2010. There is no doubt that Covid has done for Johnson as it did for Trump and many other leaders. The only difference is that Johnson won an election immediately before. Without Covid, Johnson may have achieved what people hoped we was going to do, but clearly he has failed, partly because of Covid, partly through his own stupidity (and I suspect his wife's) of assuming he and his team was immune from the opprobrium that would inevitably descent when news of the parties got out.
The energy crisis is the result of many governments of Red, Yellow/Blue and Blue hues making stupid short term decisions. That is the issue now and it is not being fixed properly and Sunak should get a grip.
Interestingly I was chatting online with the head of valuation for the Israeli government yesterday. He is very senior in international valuation matters and we were discussing the difference in cultures between the UK and Israel when it came to property valuation. His view of the UK is "England is traditional - after all you still have a monarch! This is probably a strength as it stresses continuity, moderation and gradualism. There has been political and social stability for centuries. The UK is an admirable country, at least outwardly."
Given all the mess we have been through in recent months I thought is a surprising comment. (PS - like 99% of foreigners, he thinks that England = UK.. Don't tell Nicola!)
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 4, 2022 11:50:49 GMT
There is no doubt that Covid has done for Johnson as it did for Trump and many other leaders. There very much is! Trump destroyed himself without Covid having much to do with it. Johnson has had ample opportunities to show that he can govern competently and has blown them all. Merkel faced Covid too and retired with her reputation intact. Macron did too, and looks likely to win a second term. Covid has tested leaders but the competent ones have risen to it. Your Israeli contact is right, though. The UK has been stable for so long precisely because it has had governments that respected the rule of law, at home and in their international dealings. That sort of reputation takes generations to build but can be destroyed very quickly. The UK’s international image has taken a hammering since 2016 and Johnson’s government has made it worse by flouting rules and conventions it found inconvenient. We need to stop the damage and start repairing it now
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Post by EspadaIII on Feb 4, 2022 12:39:42 GMT
I think we are on the way to what you want. I hope for your sake a slim Tory majority is not the outcome and for my sake, a coalition with Labour/SNP.
Bear in mind the Swedes had a very good Covid and still their PM was booted out... The history of Covid is now being written and John Hopkins University (I think it was them) says that lockdowns had barely any effect on the death rate; peoples voluntary actions of self-isolation and taking care had more effect than enforced lockdown. Nothing we can do about it, we can't bring the dead back and we can't get the missed life events back. It should be a lesson to future politicians.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 12:54:56 GMT
Swedes had a very good Covid.
Have I just stepped into an alternate Universe?
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Post by EspadaIII on Feb 4, 2022 13:09:33 GMT
The economy didn't suffer anywhere like competing economies... they messed up the care homes but the rest of society was much freer than ours .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 13:13:16 GMT
Aaaah. Right. No need to factor in deaths and severe illness, it's the economy and "freeeeedooooom" which is the only indicator of a successful pandemic response. Got it. As you were.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 13:22:37 GMT
I'd have thought it was both. Or all.
Delaying the spread in order to give the health services a chance as well as more time for drugs/vaccines to be developed along with not driving either the economy or people's mental health into the dirt would seem to be the broad goal.
Which probably means that nobody had a "good" pandemic. Some were just less disastrous in some areas.
I think we forget that we had never done this before and nobody either expected it or was prepared for it this time.
And awful lot of hindsight expertise touted around these days.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Feb 4, 2022 14:20:21 GMT
It's what we learn from this. JiT has it's place as does having things on a shelf ready to be pulled at short notice. Leave it to the market and investors and you get a shift to the here and now if something is just laying around not paying its way.
As we are seeing with energy, somethings need a balance between private and nationalised. We've had three decades of under investment since the breakup of the CEGB and privatisation of Gas. The unions were too strong the private investors happy to take the dividend without putting anything back in. Have we learned anything from this ? Time will tell, I wouldn't hold my breath though.
It's also the confrontation and unwillingness to work together and rub along. It has to be red or blue, black or white. Owners/Management/Shareholders unwilling to work with unions to help run a company which works very well in other markets is one example. The workers have a vested interest in a company succeeding it is not just those who have money invested. We need to get away from the money, money, money, me, me, me mentality.
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Post by dixinormus on Feb 4, 2022 19:07:47 GMT
I’m with Esp: in years to come we might look back and see that Boris had a pretty good Covid. First country to get mass vaccination underway, after having erected temporary nightingale hospital facilities that weren’t (thankfully) needed. The NHS survived, as it always will. No oppressive lockdowns like some countries.
That we the people don’t pull together and respect the rules is a whole different societal problem.
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Post by bromptonaut on Feb 5, 2022 10:08:01 GMT
We've been going downhill since 2010. There is no doubt that Covid has done for Johnson as it did for Trump and many other leaders. The only difference is that Johnson won an election immediately before. Without Covid, Johnson may have achieved what people hoped we was going to do, but clearly he has failed, partly because of Covid, partly through his own stupidity (and I suspect his wife's) of assuming he and his team was immune from the opprobrium that would inevitably descent when news of the parties got out. The energy crisis is the result of many governments of Red, Yellow/Blue and Blue hues making stupid short term decisions. That is the issue now and it is not being fixed properly and Sunak should get a grip. Maybe governments back to the eighties should have had a grip but where we are now is a direct consequence of letting the market rule our electricity and gas. When 'long term' is the max of say five years view ahead for share values etc we get no proper thought as to how our children's world will be. It was the short term vision that gave us the 'dash for gas' as the main fuel for electricity generation. The last Nuclear Power station to come on stream was Sizewell B all but 25 years ago. In the meantime the last of the Magnox reactors and a large proportion of the AGR fleet has gone. Government should have forced the pace but didn't. Same story with gas storage. Pumping it back into disused North Sea wells or leaving Gasometers standing were 'too expensive'. And why oh why have newbuilds for the last ten years not been required to have solar power on the roof?
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 5, 2022 17:41:00 GMT
…and proper insulation in the walls? And rainwater collection and reuse? Surely not because the housebuilders are Tory donors and like to keep their costs as low as they’re allowed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2022 19:19:01 GMT
…and proper insulation in the walls? And rainwater collection and reuse? Surely not because the housebuilders are Tory donors and like to keep their costs as low as they’re allowed. What a strange comment. Do you mean that all housebuilders are tory donors? Do you mean that housebuilders who are Labour donors let costs go as high as they like?
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Post by bromptonaut on Feb 6, 2022 8:50:26 GMT
…and proper insulation in the walls? And rainwater collection and reuse? Surely not because the housebuilders are Tory donors and like to keep their costs as low as they’re allowed. What a strange comment. Do you mean that all housebuilders are tory donors? Do you mean that housebuilders who are Labour donors let costs go as high as they like? There are housebuilders donating to Labour? Is there any evidence of comparable or even significant donation compared to what goes to the Conservatives?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 11:46:01 GMT
I obviously have no idea, but it would seem strange to think that house builders are not permitted to donate, support or vote for the Labour Party. But this is far too ridiculous to actually bother continuing.
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