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Post by dixinormus on May 25, 2021 8:09:45 GMT
The city of Auckland did slap a 10 cents levy on every litre of fuel sold within its boundaries. Not primarily to tackle pollution though, but rather to raise funds to pay for improved public transport.
The outcome hasn’t largely created new traffic flows of people shopping out of town for cheaper fuel.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 25, 2021 8:14:18 GMT
But that’s 5p, not the 50p you suggested. People will do more to save £20 than £2.
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Post by Humph on May 25, 2021 8:26:07 GMT
I we accept, as we must I suppose, that times are a changing, then we need more transparency on what the rules will be, and when they will change. We know about the plans and timeline to cease the sale of ICE cars, but what we don't know yet, is when or where they will be use restricted or financially penalised. Only that they probably will be, sometime.
It would be much more useful to long term planning if we did.
At the moment, my needs are still best serviced by the sort of car I have, but there has to come a point when buying a new or newer replacement will be necessary or desirable, and buying such a vehicle becomes a more difficult decision if it's potential useful lifespan is unknown.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 25, 2021 12:08:30 GMT
None of those things was mentioned as a contributing factor in the coroner’s report on the South Circular case. Sometimes the simplest explanation — tens of thousands of diesel engines slowly passing 30m from the house — is the most useful one. There can't be tens of thousands of diesels and a heavily used public transport system or, is the public transport system contributing to the problem (EDIT: either through old, inefficient vehicles or not enough vehicles to service the demand) ? Either way people are going to have to start walking, cycling more or compromise is going to have to be accepted. It would be much more useful to long term planning if we did. Therein lies the problem, politicians do not do long-term planning, they can't see beyond the end of the current term. For them there is no point doing good work for someone else to come along and take the credit later. |
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 25, 2021 12:33:18 GMT
I’ve just had my CC confirmation letter from TFL. (Yes, we had to pay £15 for Sunday’s visit.) What I didn’t know before is that Transport for London’s admin office is in Darlington.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 12:44:41 GMT
Levelling up. Tories now represent the north, Labour the South.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 25, 2021 12:45:56 GMT
I know London is a different case, but bus lanes create pollution. My personal knowledge of two bus lanes in north Manchester is that when they were introduced about 30 years ago the level of pollution smell increased noticeably due to more standstill traffic but no more buses attempting to clear it.
When one was removed the traffic flowed again and the smell disappeared.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 25, 2021 12:57:42 GMT
I remember that Maggie Thatcher using her Chemistry brain did not like the catalytic converter and wanted Europe to require better designed engines that burnt fuel using the stochiometric ratio which should have enabled far more efficient combustion creating better economy thereby reducing emissions automatically rather than trying to reduce emissions per se.
My science knowledge on this topic is rather rusty but I think she was ignored for political rather than scientific reasons. However, I wonder if we went down that route now, would the NOx be higher than modern vehicles or lower?
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 25, 2021 13:19:17 GMT
My personal knowledge of two bus lanes in north Manchester is that when they were introduced about 30 years ago the level of pollution smell increased noticeably... Anecdote is not evidence, but it’s hardly the fault of the bus lane if the disincentives to car use are not strong enough to get people to use it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 13:57:40 GMT
Buses can be electric now, or, as in Reading, powered by cow farts.
Should never have removed the trolleybuses.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 25, 2021 14:14:23 GMT
That's for certain. The trams in Manchester are heavily used even though they are not subsidised (unlike London Transport).
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 25, 2021 14:54:31 GMT
I remember that Maggie Thatcher using her Chemistry brain did not like the catalytic converter ... I wonder if we went down that route now, would the NOx be higher than modern vehicles or lower? The catalytic converter-lean burn argument concerned petrol engines, which are not the principal source of airborne NO 2. A three-way converter takes care of most of the NO 2 output from petrol combustion but can’t be used with a diesel exhaust, hence the need for the Adblue bodge. A lean-burn petrol engine has more in common with a diesel engine, in that it mixes much less fuel with a given amount of air, but requires higher pressures and temperatures, and consequently produces more NO 2 than a conventional petrol engine. So it would not have been a solution to the problem we’re discussing here. |
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 25, 2021 15:23:23 GMT
In order o get CO2 levels down in petrol cars there has been a switch to direct injection which has required GPF (or PPF or OPF depending on where you are) due to potentially (there's that word again) toxic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon (PAH) emissions. I expect once diesels have been removed from private cars we will start to hear more about PAH. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 25, 2021 15:58:20 GMT
I think we need electric cars powered by wind turbines on the roof... The ultimate perpetual motion machine...  |
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Post by dixinormus on May 25, 2021 19:49:22 GMT
Instead of looking to technology, it’s all about changing our ingrained habits. If we all reduced our car journeys by 50% then there would be a commensurate fall in emissions...
One car per household was the norm 40 years ago. If your spouse was out in the car for the day you made do without the car. Today it’s one car per adult in the household, so we can zip out constantly to do unimportant tasks. Tax fuel higher - the ultimate pay-as-you-go levy.
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