WDB
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Post by WDB on May 22, 2021 7:31:36 GMT
Seem to remember that your CLS isn't terribly miley? It should have years of useful life in it you'd think? Unless it's ULEZ non-compliant? It is. I didn’t know — hadn’t looked — till this morning. I’d imagined the minimum was Euro 5, not 6. Yesterday evening I drove it to an E postcode just inside the North Circular to collect a piece of furniture too long to fit in the i3. Took the opportunity to meet a friend for curry goat and fried plantains (indoors, thank goodness) and she mentioned she was sad to be disposing of her old but pristine Golf because it no longer met local emissions standards. And, thanks to TfL’s app (I was actually in there to update the i3’s entry) I now know my CLS doesn’t either. Practical implications? None, really. I can’t remember when I last took a big car that far into London, and I have a small one that’s perfect for the task when there’s no load to carry. And the occasional £12.50 won’t hurt too much if the need arises again before I have a big electric car too. But it’s going to create ripples in the used car market in London; probably already is.
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Post by Humph on May 22, 2021 8:09:56 GMT
I suppose it is a dilemma that many face. Bail out of non-compliant vehicles now while they might still have some value, or just run them to the end of their usefulness. "Upgrading" to a compliant vehicle may well be the more costly option.
My car is compliant, and as discussed elsewhere, it does everything I need it for exceptionally well, but there is a little devil sitting on my shoulder telling me I should probably get something new. Ironically perhaps, I'm more than able at the moment to buy whatever I want.
However, the something new in my case would still probably be a diesel for practical reasons, and it feels a bit uncomfortable to be chucking big bucks at a new or new-ish car that may have a relatively short useful life now, and that may, as legislation changes, lose much of its value more quickly. At least with the one I have, if I keep it for a while yet, and get the use of it, I'll not be too bothered if it's not worth a great deal in the end.
If things tighten further, like the total diesel bans being proposed in some cities, I do have another car that could be used on those occasions.
With your CLS, I guess you could just decide to keep it now until it's no longer viable, either through being legislated out of usefulness or simply until it's worn out.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 22, 2021 8:23:39 GMT
ULEZ is expanding in October to North and South circular, I expect the M25 is the goal.
Over here it's pretty much any car without a green sticker is banned from city centres and now EuroV diesels are in the crosshairs. My car is not worth a lot, done most if not all its depreciating.
I work outside the clean air zone of the city if I need to go in I would probably opt for the train and tram than sitting in queues trying to find 7+€/hour parking*
*assuming Covid lockdowns were nothing more than a memory and I took the petrol car, electric parking being free until everyone has an EV then I expect it will be 20€/hour parking with a 'free' charge thrown in.
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Post by Humph on May 22, 2021 8:23:41 GMT
Funnily enough, I was talking to a friend last night about his car/s. One of them is a relatively new, but the old version, Land Rover Defender. Like many who own such vehicles, he has an irrational love for it. It is not ULEZ compliant and he does go into London reasonably often. Those things are still fetching big money and he's agonising over whether to sell it now while it would realise some serious cash, or to keep it and suffer the consequences because he's fond of it.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 22, 2021 8:45:08 GMT
A Defender is not really a city car. I'd keep it and, if he had the space for two cars, have something suitable for City driving or use public transport whatever works.
Having the option of EV, petrol and diesel, diesel is still my preferred choice having almost triple the range of the other two, and 90% of the speed of the petrol. The only option left is to ban diesel to get people out of them.
Edit I should have written if I had to make a choice and go back to a single car, ignoring the politics being played out, it would be diesel.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 22, 2021 9:17:23 GMT
I think the last of those will — rightly — happen, certainly in cities, but only after a progressive marginalisation of diesels to avoid unduly penalising people who’ve bought them in good faith and who can’t simply change their vehicle or their habits.
Oh, and yesterday’s G7 decision to go for 1.5°C is bound to have repercussions for vehicle choices. Might be as simple as fuel duties (although home heating and insulation need more attention sooner) but expect to see changes.
Incidentally, I was pleasantly surprised by how easily I parked in E17 yesterday. I’d done a Streetview recce and established that residents-only restrictions end at 1730 but I still needed a space and there were plenty. Just round the corner from the restaurant too.
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Post by Humph on May 22, 2021 9:42:56 GMT
A Defender is not really a city car. I'd keep it and, if he had the space for two cars, have something suitable for City driving... Interesting you say that, the conversation last night arose, in part anyway, from my having shown him our petrol Renegade a couple of weeks ago. He really liked it, and was yesterday, getting fairly serious about buying one to have in addition to the Defender to use in the way you suggest. Like me, he needs to carry more kit than is viable on public transport, and regularly needs to be able to access city centres. His wife has a Mini convertible that she loves and doesn't want to part with, but which is no good on loadspace, so I can see why he'd be mulling the problem.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 22, 2021 9:43:51 GMT
While I agree individuals have a role and responsibilities to play in cutting pollution until everyone shares the same view the pollution continues to grow.
Depending on where you source your news I've read China have a view of the west has had 150 years of industrialisation and pollution, now it's our turn. If that is true and the line they are taking we will be back to living in caves and walking everywhere to offset what is coming with all the coal and iron ore that country is sitting on.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 22, 2021 10:56:09 GMT
Yes, and China isn’t in the G7, so yesterday’s declaration may be of only passing interest there. But [China] saying, “Not our problem, the leak is at your end of the boat,” isn’t going to work for ever. And, in the short term at least, China’s prosperity depends on having a worldwide base of customers to sell to. It may be hoping that its domestic market will get big enough for its producers to do what they like, but it's not there yet, so the time for the world to exert consumer pressure is now.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 22, 2021 11:52:30 GMT
I don't think anyone saying not our problem, until you get all the big polluters playing by the same rules the G7 and any other group is a load of blah, blah, blah and will achieve nothing. The G7 has been in effect how long? The news always reporting things are getting worse tells me it is not effective and needs to be looked at and changed. It is simply not working.
We need to remove the politicians if we want to achieve anything and let the grown ups have the discussions. This is not a call for anarchy and overthrowing of governments, if you want something doing do not ask a politician to deliver. Politicians do what industrialists/money tells them.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 22, 2021 11:56:59 GMT
I think China might be - hence my square bracketed edit.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 23, 2021 18:09:16 GMT
I'm astonished Sadiq Khan was re-elected. This ULEZ nonsense affects the poorest drivers in society most. Having to change cars when your existing one is perfectly satisfactory is a waste of resources of all types.
I can see a scheme whereby you declare ownership of a car on Day One and when you change it, you have to improve the emissions. Anything else discriminates...
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 23, 2021 20:32:12 GMT
Slight flaw there EspIII, that would encourage people out of petrol and in to diesel. The only number looked at is CO2.
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Post by dixinormus on May 23, 2021 21:22:32 GMT
I don’t think I would buy a diesel car if I were in the market right now. Legislation is only going one way. But I wouldn’t buy an EV yet either. Small petrol turbo seems to be the middle ground, with or without a hybrid component. I see that the new Kia Sorento large 7-seater makes do with a 1.6 petrol turbo and supplementary electric power. Presumably the 2 power sources combined are up to the job.
Saw a brand new, shiny orange Audi Q8 yesterday. Looked striking. But then I saw that it was diesel powered. Seems incongruous really.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 24, 2021 6:45:22 GMT
I'm astonished Sadiq Khan was re-elected. This ULEZ nonsense affects the poorest drivers in society most. How is it ‘nonsense’ to reduce emissions that are now known to have potentially fatal consequences? The consultations on air quality and ULEZ have been running since 2015, so it’s hardly a surprise to anyone in London. (It was to me only because I’d not been paying attention.) And the consultations showed strong public support for air quality measures — albeit stronger where the targets were HGVs and buses, suggesting many still see it as a ‘them’ problem rather than a ‘me’ problem. Westminster, where I went yesterday, now levies a surcharge for parking a pre-2015 diesel car, but lets EVs park for four hours for the price of ten minutes. (Although it’s free for everyone on Sundays — once they’ve paid the Congestion Charge. And there were spookily few vehicles of any type.)
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