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Post by bromptonaut on Mar 25, 2021 11:33:24 GMT
Llandegla of course is in Wales so subject to the Principality's rules.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Mar 25, 2021 11:36:40 GMT
Yes, but Humph lives in England, so that travel rule applies to him too.
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Post by Humph on Mar 25, 2021 11:39:40 GMT
I was thinking more of Delamere ( 14 miles away ) Not sure I could get up Llandegla anyway at the moment. So unfit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 11:47:42 GMT
There being differences between England and Wales is a source of enormous frustration when trying to work out what I am and am not legally allowed to do/not do with regards to visiting Mum. From next Monday, England is under a "guideline" to stay local, but not a legal requirement. As is Wales, and both countries are allowing mixing of two hoseholds outdoors. So, whilst it is in no way local, I think I'm being reasonable in planning to visit my elderly Mum after a year apart. Am I? I don't think it would be reasonable for someone to drive from Reading to Carmarthen for a pointless day out, but to visit a lonely elderly parent for the first time in a year? Surely that's OK? Perhaps I should wait until the May 17th changes, or even the June 21st ones, should they happen on schedule.
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Post by Humph on Mar 25, 2021 11:58:23 GMT
I don't know what to say Al. But, I think I know what I'd do, if everyone meeting has had a jab...
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Mar 25, 2021 11:59:01 GMT
The point is that any travel, especially outside our immediate area, reduces the downward pressure on cases. New Zealand is an extreme example that illustrates the principle: by effectively reducing travel to zero, they’ve got cases down to a level where any that do arise are easy to isolate and eliminate.
We’re not at that level here but the trend is heading that way. We’ve also seen what happens when a relaxation encourages people to take risks; it happened last August and again with the December fiasco. Every person who thinks, I know it says ... but surely I’m an exception, is increasing the risk that it happens again. Wales isn’t local to Berkshire, so I think you know the answer.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Mar 25, 2021 12:14:55 GMT
There being differences between England and Wales is a source of enormous frustration when trying to work out what I am and am not legally allowed to do/not do with regards to visiting Mum. From next Monday, England is under a "guideline" to stay local, but not a legal requirement. As is Wales, and both countries are allowing mixing of two hoseholds outdoors. So, whilst it is in no way local, I think I'm being reasonable in planning to visit my elderly Mum after a year apart. Am I? I don't think it would be reasonable for someone to drive from Reading to Carmarthen for a pointless day out, but to visit a lonely elderly parent for the first time in a year? Surely that's OK? Perhaps I should wait until the May 17th changes, or even the June 21st ones, should they happen on schedule. You're not allowed to drive at 122mph on the M5 after receiving a haircut in Wales, so don't let your Mum finish off what your wife has started: |
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Post by Humph on Mar 25, 2021 12:25:34 GMT
Has he actually got a car that will do 122?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 12:26:32 GMT
And there we have it. 2 diametrically opposed opinions from Humph and WDB.
It's an absolute shambles.
But I'll say this: guidelines aren't law. I can assess my own risk in those circumstances. I don't see how travelling 180 miles in one go without stopping, is all that different from going 2 miles to another part of town, to meet someone in their own garden and return home that same day, again without stopping. There is a near zero differential in risk. The only extra risk is the chance of breakdown or accident is greater over a longer distance.
Out of interest, what size ring are you drawing round your home, WDB, to keep to the "stay local" guideline?
My Mum's got a heart condition and it could all end in a second.
There are huge numbers of young, and therefore unvaccinated, people I see ignoring social distancing and gathering in large groups for restricted activites in my local park already. These are the people risking the situation, not somebody going to see his old Mum in her garden at arms length, and coming in to contact with precisely nobody else whilst doing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 12:27:37 GMT
Has he actually got a car that will do 122? I've got one which will do 134mph. You lot constantly under-estimate the Civic. |
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Post by Humph on Mar 25, 2021 12:30:54 GMT
Knew you'd bite...
😊
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 12:41:10 GMT
As sure as death and taxes.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Mar 25, 2021 12:42:05 GMT
I don't see how travelling 180 miles in one go without stopping, is all that different from going 2 miles to another part of town, to meet someone in their own garden and return home that same day, again without stopping. There is a near zero differential in risk. The only extra risk is the chance of breakdown or accident is greater over a longer distance. It’s about distribution. By travelling, you create a direct corridor between areas that would otherwise be connected only in multiple short hops. Remember how the early cases here all came back with people who’d been to ski resorts? The same principle applies now; it’s much easier to put out a hundred small fires than one huge joined-up one. Staying local reduces the risk of joining fires up. Out of interest, what size ring are you drawing round your home, WDB, to keep to the "stay local" guideline? 15km, near enough. Missions within that radius have been in connection with education. Beyond, it’s only been a couple of trips to Sussex, in connection with selling the house there. All explicitly permitted exceptions. Otherwise, I’m limited to the radius of approximately 15km I can reach on a bike. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 13:11:02 GMT
I'm talking about going when the permitted exceptions you speak of no longer apply. From Monday 29th March "stay at home" ends. It is replaced with a guideline to stay local.
I can see your points, and it's why I'm torn.
Your 15km then is your interpretation of the guidelines. No, obviously, I don't consider 180 miles to be local either. But with the mitigations of being in contact with nobody whilst I do it and following social distancing and remaining within the re-implemented rule of six at the other end, I don't see any extra problem above going to meet another household outdoors locally. I'm vaccinated, Mum's vaccinated, Mrs A is vaccinated and my step-father is vaccinated. My children are tested twice a week.
I've stuck to the rules religiously, as have all responsible people. Those rules are about to change, and guidleines give us the space to make considered, risk assessed judgements, surely. I'm not proposing organising a 1,800 people rave up here.
Ideally, you're right, I shouldn't go. It is a difficult thing though when you're old Mum is crying down the phone at you with loneliness and nothing to look forward to.
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Post by Humph on Mar 25, 2021 13:15:42 GMT
I've still had to travel a fair bit for work. Major routes seem as busy as ever. People are moving about, whether with good reason or not, but they are.
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