Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 22, 2020 0:22:08 GMT
Most saloons derived from hatchbacks look wrong, and fastbacks for that matter too. Examples I can think of are: - VW Jetta - VW Bora - Ford Scorpio saloon - Most Focus saloons - Vauxhall Belmont - Vauxhall Astra (various) But a car I did have that seemed to get the rear end right was the previous (and current because it's almost identical) is the Audi A3 saloon. www.leaseyournextcar.com/carimages/413-width/audi-a3-saloon_1.jpgIt's meant to be a 3 box design but the components need to work together. A Cortina from the 80s worked because it kept it simple. Adding on a boot to a hatchback does not work. You need to redesign the roofline and rear doors too. But something else the previous A3 got right was those clever circular air vents. Not that they were circular although that was part of it... you could change the way air came out of them so it was either diffused widely or focussed. You could also change how much air came out (the surround rotated) and the direction (they moved). But pulling and pushing the centre part of the vent changed how the air came out. Can we live without that... of course. |
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Post by Humph on Aug 22, 2020 7:06:18 GMT
My wife rolled her Ka into a field. Firemen had to cut her out of it. But she was unharmed. However, she too has a "thing" about small cars now. She's not truly comfortable in them because of that incident. Says she feels safer in her "chunky" Qashqai. Whether it actually is safer is sort of not the point I guess, if she feels like it is.
Have to admit, while I have no immediate plans to hit anything with the Merc, it does feel like it would come off better than most if I did.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 14:08:45 GMT
I think hatchback derived saloons look wrong when there is a fourth pillar. It upsets the balance. The rear door of a saloon is in the gap between the B and C pillar. Adding a fourth pillar looks wrong.
A hatchback is already a compromise for people who need more space than a saloon and who want the flexibility of an estate opening without the overall space. Tacking a box onto the back of that will never look good.
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Post by Humph on Aug 22, 2020 14:18:38 GMT
I've beaten this drum before, but I really don't get saloons. I've had some of course, they were more popular last century, but they just feel like they're not making the best use of space, without any aesthetic advantage. Except Alfa Giulias of course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 16:37:55 GMT
You have a job Humph where you need to carry "stuff". I do not have such a need from my car. I live in a country where the UK weekend pass time of a trip to the tip/dump does not exist. A few times a year the local council do pickups. You buy some stickers from the local shop, put them on whatever you want disposing off and the council fairies magic it away in the early hours without waking up the neighbourhood. I've ordered an estate car this time for one reason only. We have a medium sized dog. I have put a cover on the rear seat of my saloon car, that works for local walks, trips etc. It wouldn't work for a long schlep to Scotland for example. Nobody wants a panting dog in their face for that, especially after he's taken care of his ablutions.  It would make more sense for me to hire a car for such occassions, we don't really need a third car, though while the offer is there why not ? I'm in the fortunate position of being able to do so and have no idea how long that may or may not last. We've had MPVs, estates, hatchbacks, coupes and saloons and I still like driving the three box saloon, it just feels right for me. I always get the impression of peering into a tunnel looking in the rear view mirror of an estate car. If I want space, I hire a van or pay for delivery. |
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Post by Humph on Aug 22, 2020 19:35:49 GMT
Yeah, but it's not just the job. At least twice, often three times a week, the car gets used to transport bikes and idiots, and their kit, to places where they can combine them. A saloon just wouldn't cut it. Accountant's cars. 😴
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 21:10:28 GMT
😀 I never understand people who get a car costing thousands of pounds and throw muddy bikes and garden waste inside. Surely better for the car to hang bikes on a tipping frame on a tow bar hook or use a trailer? Keep the mud where it belongs, outside.
It could be the same people who will put a washing machine, tumble drier, bikes, lawn mower other house and garden items worth a few hundred pounds in the garage and leave the expensive item outside in all weathers. The difference between your own money and company money I suppose. 🤔
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 22, 2020 21:50:18 GMT
I prefer the styling of a saloon or fastback/liftback to an estate or hatchback. Note I am saying something like a Pug 508 hatchback is more of a fastback.
Indeed I prefer to look of the A5 Sportback to the A4 saloon and estate. Likewise the VW Arteon over the saloon/estate Passat.
But I've managed to get all sorts to the tip in a saloon including a sofa in a Passat saloon in 2001.
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Post by dixinormus on Aug 23, 2020 1:01:33 GMT
I’m with Rob: one of the best sedans out there is the Audi A3, I’d have one in a heartbeat.
Sedans often have more luggage space than their hatchback variants, and said luggage can be locked away from prying eyes.
Back in the 70s/80s weren’t estate cars perceived as being noisier? Echo/resonance from the luggage area, and poorly sealed rattly tailgates? Or was that just the Ford Escort?! 😂
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Post by Humph on Aug 23, 2020 1:41:06 GMT
Bikes go on the roof of my car, not inside, but it's all the other kit, tools, waterproofs, spare tyres etc that go inside. But most importantly, the picnic ! You can't sit in the boot of a saloon car, sheltering from the rain, drinking coffee and eating your picnic now can you? An estate car has a built in outdoor seating area with weather protection.
😉
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 6:54:10 GMT
Do you eat in the garden shed at home next to the tools, waterproofs, repair kit etc. ? 😁
A campervan with shower facilities could be the answer. A bit more civilised than sitting in the bootroom caked in mud. You might need help getting the bikes up on the roof though 🤣
When I think about it, the question of space in a saloon car for me is like people telling you, Humph, that RWD and snow and ice are a problem. In 14 years of having saloon cars I've never been in the position where I thought damn ! I could do with some extra space. Having a 500l roof box on a lift in the garage that can be mounted in less than 5 minutes, start to finish, helps.
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Post by Humph on Aug 23, 2020 9:30:14 GMT
Ahem, I have a 600L roofbox too, for those occasions when the loadspace of an E Class estate is just not enough. Blocks the sunroof though, and who wants that eh?
Campervan? Not sure I'm old enough for one of those yet.
😉
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Post by Humph on Aug 23, 2020 10:00:01 GMT
Anyway, yesterday, I did the "big shop" at Sainsburys, and there was a bloke next to me in the car park with an A3 saloon. He seemed to be playing some kind of three dimensional chess trying to get what he'd bought from the store, along with an Argos package into the boot through a laughably small aperture.
I just lobbed my stuff in to mine in seconds and was off to get on with more interesting things.
I really don't know what small saloons are for. Big ones probably make ok taxis I suppose.
😉
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Post by EspadaIII on Aug 23, 2020 10:48:21 GMT
I like saloons, even though I have not owned one for years. Last one was a Volvo S80 2.9 I think. Not even sure I have rented one in a long while. There is something I like about them; perhaps the view they are smarter, and supposedly less noisy and more secure than hatchbacks or estates. Sure they are less practical unless you have something very long and thin to transport but I am reminded of the epithet about the Triumph Dolomite... "the car you drive when wearing a dinner suit" I think it went?
Tens of thousands of Europeans/Americans/Chinese can't be that wrong can they? I like my estate and effectively I have driven estates or MPVs for the last 18 years. But I am now at a stage with my children that I could drive an A3 saloon without compromising my lifestyle. I just can't see myself driving a regualr hatchback unless it was something different and special.
Isn't this argument a bit like left foot braking? Those of us who are content to do it, will continue to do so and those who can't will tell us we are stupid. It isn't going to affect world peace or global warming is it? We buy the car that suits us at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 10:56:36 GMT
There is no right or wrong answer to this, just chewing the fat.
Everyone's use and needs are different.
Always makes me laugh people with saloon cars who think luggage/cargo can only be loaded through the boot opening forgetting they have four usable door openings too.
I've had a fridge in my S60. Just collapsed the passenger seat and opened the door wide.
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