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Post by Humph on Aug 18, 2020 12:07:51 GMT
Nice, not many of those in't dales.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 13:10:13 GMT
I have made the mistake of asking my son's opinion of the Clio and the Focus.
"They're both a bit shit, but fine for a teenager's first car."
I can't really argue.
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Post by Humph on Aug 18, 2020 13:22:24 GMT
Well, you might remember the lad I mentioned a few pages back who was using that hand me down Corolla? And indeed how we all nodded approvingly?
Yeah, well, the same young fella has just taken delivery of a three months old, ex-demonstrator, John Cooper Works Mini.
Muchio fastio. Insurance must be eye watering.
Have you any idea how much counselling I'm having to give my son right now about his ten year old Aygo, and indeed how many home truths I'm having to impart about him being a skint final year student and his mate being an employed, salary earning, trainee accountant...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 10:57:23 GMT
Right. Well. I've decided to attempt some proper maths to help me make my mind up about this. In a spreadsheet.
I have estimated my annual mileage under 2 scenarios, best and worst case - i.e. taking in to account some commuting or no commuting at all. And added a best/worst case monthly estimate for maintenance and repairs on an older car. Bearing in mind though that, if i replace the Leaf, I will move the majority of our mileage on to the Civic, and the second car will then be not much more than a paperweight, its mileage and therefore wear an tear will be absolutely minimal.
Then I worked out costs based on a high price for petrol (1.35/l), used 35mpg as the average expected consumption, and averaged the monthly cost between best and worst case scenarios. It comes out at £107.50/month. And that is fairly pessimistic given the above.
The Leaf costs £150 a month to finance. It would cost me worst case £25 a month for electricity now that I have to charge at home which would level out an estimated £25 a month on VED on an old banger (although I could add a calculation in the worst case costs to allow for free charging at work, but now were really getting in to complex details) and if I assume zero maintenance and repair costs on it, I can safely say I'd expect to be at least £50-70 month better off running the Civic as a daily, and keeping a second paid for banger in reserve.
And if I do it I've got a car ready to go for the young 'un next year, and won't need to buy and run a third car for his exclusive use.
So I'm still leaning towards getting a banger, but I do do do really like and want to keep the Leaf.
Can't make my mind up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 12:15:33 GMT
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Post by EspadaIII on Aug 20, 2020 12:46:31 GMT
They rust.... You need to take a very strong magnet to your inspection and even then I would buy the other cars you saw earlier in the week.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 12:48:37 GMT
Yeah you're right they do, no mention of rust on any MOTs here though and only 16k miles, hasn't seen much salt on the road I'd suspect. Wouldn't see much in my ownership either and you just have to wash it underneath regularly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 15:19:37 GMT
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Post by EspadaIII on Aug 20, 2020 15:45:08 GMT
Bound to be reliable....
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Post by dixinormus on Aug 20, 2020 20:12:13 GMT
Oof. Can’t you just use man-maths?!
Think I’d keep paying off the Leaf for the time-being, until I a) sold it privately and see how much cash it makes me, or b) the offer of the decade turns up at a dealers for something I really wanted.
Starting to sound like a lot of hassle for a car that is going to get such little use anyway. Very low usage probably suits an electric car better?
In fact, I’d probably sell the Leaf and see what living with only 1 car is like for a few months first before plunging in!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 7:23:27 GMT
Well dixi, if I keep the Leaf I would be using it daily, and keeping the Civic in reserve, because of the Leaf's manifest advantage in fuel costs. But the whole point of investigating this subject is to reduce the cost of motoring across the two cars, given my dramatic decline in annual mileage (from 12,000 to 6,000 or even 3,000). It seems to have become evident that keeping 2 cars will be a fair bit cheaper if I change the Leaf for a banger, under my new circumstances
The whole point of getting the Leaf in the first place was that it was substantially cheaper to buy it on a PCP than to put diesel/petrol in a traditional car. I reduced my monthly car ownership/running costs substantially. Those sums don't apply any more. I can only justify the Leaf financially on a higher mileage than I now expect to do.
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Post by Humph on Aug 21, 2020 8:03:56 GMT
Then, sorry to be awkward, but I'm still thinking you should consider a learner friendly, old/cheap but well kept, low insurance group manual car to run alongside the all rounder Civic. Only downside seems to be your concern about maybe having to make a very occasional longer emergency trip in the second car, but given the likely infrequency of that, the upsides of a car that ticks all the other boxes seems to make a strong case.
I've taken "his" wee car on some longer trips, including motorways, and it's fine, even with a couple of bikes on the roof. I'd happily drive it to France if necessary. It's not fast, but it keeps up with other traffic no problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 8:15:02 GMT
No you're not being awkward, Humph. I am practically on the same page as you, the only exception being I don't see the need to drop to something so small if I just don't "want" to. I don't feel comfortable in such small cars, particularly with passengers in the back. Their heads are so close to the rear screen in the event of an impact from behind. I just don't like them. I prefer to have a bit of crumple zone behind us, and paying a little more in insurance for a bigger car is a fine pay off in my book. I've run some insurance quotes as I said earlier in the thread, and the difference is maybe a couple of hundred pounds over a year to insure a bigger car for my son as a main driver, once his test is passed. I'm happy with that.
You're happy with an Aygo, I wouldn't be. Nothing more to it than that. Our appetites for risk and willingness to accept the pay offs involved in mitigating risk are different. That's it. And, of course, any manual car is learner friendly. it doesn't have to be minuscule, and I'm even minded as I said before that it's better to learn in bigger cars. Get over the mental barrier early.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 21, 2020 8:35:16 GMT
That has been a consideration of my car choices since 2006. Even on my mind when looking at the XC40 although I did think well it's a Volvo.
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Post by EspadaIII on Aug 21, 2020 11:01:41 GMT
Skoda Fabia saloon.... Small car with nice boot to protect rear passengers... Skoda Fabia saloon |
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