Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 17:40:58 GMT
A few weeks ago we were in London on a Sunday. My daughter aged 13 wanted to visit a friend, so we dropped her off outside Canons Park tube station in the pouring rain, she ran in and off we went. We have now received a Penalty Charge for stopping in a bus stop. £110 reduced to £55 for a quick sale. I have looked on Google Streetview and whilst there is a sign saying 'no stopping except for buses' it faces the road and therefore not visible to a driver stopped underneath it. Tube StationThis sort of thing starts to boil my blood but before I get the red pen out and try to appeal on the grounds of discrimination against Northerners who do stop in a bus stop for two seconds on a wet Sunday to drop people off, and the non-visibility of the sign from the drivers seat; do I have any chance of a successful appeal? |
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Post by tyrednexited on Aug 16, 2018 17:50:39 GMT
...there is quite a big clue in the yellow writing on the road, though  You can drop off passengers on double yellows without penalty, but doing so in a bus stop is an offence. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 17:59:50 GMT
True - but they really are money grabbing b******ds. Doesn't happen ooop nooorth.
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Post by tyrednexited on Aug 16, 2018 18:04:23 GMT
TBF, inhabiting a part of the road intended for buses can have worse consequences, as at least one of "the locals" can vouch  |
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Post by bromptonaut on Aug 19, 2018 8:26:38 GMT
Pay up and accept the discount I think. Trouble with being on a bus stop for 30 seconds is that there's a whole procession of 30second stoppers and I'd guess the buses are more frequent now than when I was a daily use of Canons Park c1980.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 15:30:17 GMT
What Bromp said.
How do they know how long you have been there or will be there? Do they wait and see? At what point does your wait cross a threshold?
I can quite see why they simple see it and book it.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Aug 19, 2018 15:49:21 GMT
They're within their rights but it does seem petty of you stopped for only a moment and there was no bus in sight.
I expect the wardens keep a tally in their lair and get extra brownie points for bagging a Mercedes. You'd probably have got away with it if you'd been in a Skoda.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 19, 2018 18:16:27 GMT
I don't think you have grounds to appeal and only 14 days to pay to get the discount. So pay it and forget about it. Annoying though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 19:43:20 GMT
>>and get extra brownie points for bagging a Mercedes. You'd probably have got away with it if you'd been in a Skoda.
Is that really what you think?
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 19, 2018 21:10:10 GMT
I think Avant may be giving Esp’s leg a gentle pull.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 22:22:49 GMT
Ahhh. Makes a bit more sense.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 20, 2018 6:54:59 GMT
...there is quite a big clue in the yellow writing on the road, though You can drop off passengers on double yellows without penalty, but doing so in a bus stop is an offence. What offence, though? The HC merely says DO NOT (their bold and capitals) — which surprised me when I checked as I’m used to SHOULD NOT or MUST NOT, with only the MUST NOT items (like crossing a solid line on to chevrons) being an outright offence. Perhaps London has its own, stricter rules. I’ve not seen that ‘No stopping except buses’ plate elsewhere, certainly not here, where I occasion drop a boy if I’m taking one with extra kit for a school event. goo.gl/maps/KXZAgsdNubL2As you’ll see, I’m far from the only one! |
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Post by tyrednexited on Aug 20, 2018 7:54:39 GMT
Here goes, then:
The combination of the broad yellow line and the "except buses" sign makes it a "Bus Stop Clearway".
==
The position of the sign (though unhelpful) complies with the requirements:
9.23 As the broad continuous yellow line that forms
part of the bus stop clearway marking is intended to
indicate that stopping is prohibited, it is not essential
that the signs to diagram 974 and 975 face
oncoming traffic, particularly where the prohibition
is continuous. However, where the sign shows a time
period it will be helpful to drivers if the sign does
face oncoming traffic. The sign should normally be
located near the centre of the bay or mounted on
the post that supports the bus stop sign to diagram
970, 973.2 or 973.3. Where the bus stop marking
has been extended to accommodate two or more
buses, it might be preferable to mount the sign close
to the beginning of the bay. In these circumstances
an additional sign, mounted parallel to the kerb,
might be required near the centre of the bay.
==
The wording from The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 act is
PART I
SIGNIFICANCE OF BUS STOP AND BUS STAND CLEARWAY MARKINGS
Interpretation of Part I of Schedule
1. For the purposes of this Part of this Schedule—
(a)“clearway” means an area of carriageway bounded by the continuous and broken straight yellow lines comprised in the road marking in diagram 1025.1, 1025.3 or 1025.4 and “bus stop clearway” means a clearway on which the words “BUS STOP” are marked; and
(b)a vehicle shall be taken to have stopped within a clearway if—
(i)any point in the clearway is below the vehicle or its load (if any); and
(ii)the vehicle is stationary.
Prohibition conveyed by road markings
2. The road markings in diagrams 1025.1, 1025.3 and 1025.4 shall each convey the prohibition that, subject to the exceptions specified in paragraphs 3 and 4, no person driving a vehicle shall cause it to stop within the clearway—
(a)at any time, if the sign shown in diagram 974 or 975 placed in conjunction with the markings is varied so as to omit the reference to times of day; or
(b)in any other case, during the period specified on that sign.
==
The offence itself is essentially under section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (RTA 1988), i.e. failing to comply with an
authorised sign (and I understand it falls under the rules for civil enforcement).
The provisions of the act aren't restricted to London (and are implemented elsewhere).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 7:58:06 GMT
I have paid up. We were in Espadrilles Clubman not my Merc.
We were caught 'live' by a camera operator working remotely, so he could see (and the Notice proves it), that we were stopped for five seconds at most and my daughter ran from the cover of the station entrance, into the back of the car and we drove off; so I feel aggreived that a live person watched this and 'did me' where there was no obstruction taking place.
It's just a nasty think to do and an example of how I feel the urban areas of this country are going.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 9:36:42 GMT
Similar happened to my missus, stopped in a yellow junction box for about 3 seconds, and moved off before any obstruction was caused. Hammersmith Broadway. Observed in real time by an operative who issued a fine. I was in the car in front, and had warned her about the junction in advance as I knew this was common practice there. The volume of traffic was such that I couldn't wait for a two car space to open up in front of me, as others would simply fill the gap and we'd never have moved off at all.
Bah.
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