Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 5:32:24 GMT
Forget party allegencies. Labour have done remarkably well despite Corbyn and the Diane Abbott fiascos. Conservative fought a very poor campaign focused purely on Brexit and Theresa May. No big beasts were wheeled out, the social care U-turn and two terrorist attacks didn't help and the gains in Scotland were outweighed by losses elsewhere. Would getting Boris out more have helped them?
Where did all the Brexit voters go? What about all the people who voted Tory in the local elections? What made them change in such a short time? A most importantly what happens now?
It goes to show that every vote counts. So many people in my constituency said "I hate Corbyn, but Labour won't get in and I like our sitting Labour MP so I'm still going to vote for him". So they all voted Labour and look what happened.
Events Eh!
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jun 9, 2017 5:54:21 GMT
June really is the end of May! It's exposed her as the clueless opportunist she is, and Tories aren't lenient with leaders who blow it.
Schadenfreude for breakfast. Yum!
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jun 9, 2017 8:53:48 GMT
It really does seem that enough young people voted this time to shift the balance and invalidate May's lazy assumption that all she had to do was turn up.
I'm hoping this is another sign that the aberrations of 2016 were not the end of the post-1989 liberal consensus. Trump is in trouble and will eventually do something he can't wriggle out of. France, Austria, Hungary and the Netherlands have all looked at simplistic populism and decided to reject it, and I'm confident Germany will do the same. We here have had a look at the consequences and decided to step back from requesting more of the same.
A messy day, but a hopeful one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 9:58:36 GMT
A moderately good result in that it pushes us towards a softer brexit (EEA perhaps), and even increases the slim chances of a second referendum or no brexit at all. So I'm moderately pleased in that regard. And my dreadful Tory MP has gone, the seat has not gone to the party I wanted but still, he's gone. And that's brilliant. I suppose it's the best result I could have realistically hoped for, accepting that we weren't ever going to get a LibDem government, nor any coalition including them. Although on the last point, watch this space. They said not coalition with May or Corbyn. What if may goes, and someone like Hammond replaces her, and an offer of EU Referendum 2 is made to the LibDems to bring them in?
Biggest losses to the country in terms of skilled and decent Parliamentarians are Clegg and Robertson. And the biggest villains of the night are the Labour supporters in Richmond who let that smug tosser Goldsmith back in.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jun 9, 2017 10:10:52 GMT
I think the Tories will be able to get what they need from the 11 fellow headbangers of the DUP, rather than rely on the Lib Dems.
Corbyn has a major decision to make. It looks as if Labour did as well as it did by finally mobilizing the youth vote. He may claim some credit for that, but I suspect it was going to happen anyway, on the 'fool me twice, shame on me' principle. Corbyn's achievement (backhanded compliment alert) was to look weak enough to inadvertently sucker May into calling the election in the first place.
I'd advise him now to take what credit comes his way for the party's increased support, and step aside. "Look," he can say, "I've exceeded expectations as caretaker by bringing in all these new voters from the left. Now we can use that as a base from which to regain the centre, but for that you'll need someone younger and more telegenic." Starmer would be my choice, but Corbyn has the opportunity to leave looking both successful and statesmanlike - even though he's just led his party to a third successive defeat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 11:21:05 GMT
I thought PR was supposed to give power and influence to fringe lunatics, not FPTP? We've got to bin FPTP. Politics has changed, the electoral system is beyond its sell by date. Wonder what it feels like if you didn't vote for Corbyn because of terrorist "support", and we get this? Although DUP's terrorists are probably the right kind of terrorists to some people.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 11:55:34 GMT
I thought PR was supposed to give power and influence to fringe lunatics, not FPTP? We've got to bin FPTP. Politics has changed, the electoral system is beyond its sell by date. Wonder what it feels like if you didn't vote for Corbyn because of terrorist "support", and we get this? Although DUP's terrorists are probably the right kind of terrorists to some people. Alan - that exactly was the problem in my area. A large Jewish population (not a majority by any means but certainly enough to swing things) and a good local boy MP who is Jewish and proud of it. Corbyn clearly hates the Jews and even more so the Israelis, so we all feel very vulnerable about him. A few people decided to vote Labour against their better judgement to keep the local boy hoping it would have no effect, but as I said above; every vote counts. So local boy was re-elected (in since 1997) and various people now have egg on their face. Genuinely, if Labour had won, within two years I would have sorted out my affairs and would have been off to where the Jews are welcome; Israel, USA, Canada or Australia. Most likely Israel as I can walk right in, but it doesn't matter. I would go, take my money with me and leave about 25 staff without jobs. Callous I know, but Corbyn would sell me down the river for a handshake with a terrorist. My knowledge of Northern Ireland politics and history is not great (why were we not taught this in school?). But frankly similar to most people around the world about the Middle East - a plague on both houses. It seems to me that having achieved so much for the Catholic community, Sinn Fein are about to mess it up by stupid posturing about Arlene Foster, whereas a little humility from the DUP side would be sensible. I don't see the issue over the border. No one wants a hard border; Eire is outside Schengen so agreeing an Island of Ireland entry policy should be easy. Do I support PR. To an extent. There are good and bad systems. The worst is Israel which has 120 seats, no geographical representation only party lists and corruption. I think the Mayoral elections in May here seemed to do a good job. The problem is that if you are a Tory voter, there is only one party to select. If you are more centrist or left wing you have Labour, Liberal and the Greens to choose from as an alternative (if that is the system selected). Another election in six months? Who remembers 1974?
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Jun 9, 2017 11:58:32 GMT
You're right there Alanovic - the advantage of FPTP was supposed to be that we didn't get inconclusive results as they have for years in Italy. Now we've had it twice in a decade.
Theresa is a regular churchgoer where I used to be organist, and I know and like her. But she and the Conservatives seem incapable of mounting an effective campaign: look at Remain last year, in both cases desperately short on the positive advantages of voting Remain / Conservative. Another big minus is that if the Press are to be believed, far too much power to make decisions has been in the hands of the unelected (and for all I know unqualified and untrained) Nick Timothy, a man who makes Alastair Campbell look human.
All of my four children (in their 30s) voted Remain - none of them is an extremist politically, but none had any intention of voting Conservative. I think the under-40s were more motivated by dislke of the Conservatives than any faith in Labour.
Let us hope that a link, of whatever sort, between the Conservatives and the DUP will give us a workable government for the time being. They seem to be a little less bigoted than they were when the IRA were violent.
The best hope is for Jeremy Corbyn to retire gracefully when he reaches 70 and for someone of the centre left to lead Labour. That would give us a competent opposition which we haven't had for some time, with most of the better Labour MPs refusing to join Corbyn's shadow cabinet. Presumably they will ask to be taken back now....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 12:26:22 GMT
Theresa is a regular churchgoer where I used to be organist, and I know and like her. One wonders how a supposed Christian such as herself can propose and implement such distinctly ungenerous, uncaring and unchristian policies. But then one often wonders that about the supposedly religious. Don't do as I do............
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 12:36:40 GMT
I expected it. In fact I won quite a lot of money on it.
Not to be a smart arse about it, but it seemed pretty likely.
Did you see May and the Conservatives having the credibility to increase their share?
Did you see Corbyn gaining enough to tke over?
So what else was going to happen?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 14:31:02 GMT
Why does Northern Ireland have separate parties? Sinn Fein I understand, but why no Labour, Liberal or Conservatives?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 14:39:06 GMT
It's not that they don't have them, but that those parties choose not to stand there. Other way round. The Maybot actually did some campaigning over there, for some reason.
Beers are on Otto. We convene at the Pack Saddle, Mapledurham. 6 o'clock sharp. Kebabs after.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 15:33:57 GMT
That's right, take the joy out of my win.
I hope your Merc gets wonkier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 16:21:32 GMT
So, who sits down with the grown ups at the big table to negotiate Brexit ? A PM who makes more U-turns than a Hackney carriage on a busy Friday night who called a G.E. after declaring Brexit and returns without a majority while losing >10% of the negotiating time until 19th June when HM re-opens Parliament for business for a few weeks before they all disappear off until October. If that was planned then it makes it pretty clear what the strategy for negotiating Brexit is. Other than the personal attacks on individuals during this campaign, wasn't it Theresa May herself her called the Conservative Party the Nasty Party back in October 2002, was the hammering Labour took over education costs, police cost and so on and so forth as though there was nothing of concern with the current financial state of the country. I looked up the National debt figures for the UK. www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.htmlIn 2005 it stood at £500bn. When the Conservative led coalition took over after the global crisis it stood at a shade over £1trillion. After 7 years of austerity it stands at £1.7trillion. Year on year whether a Labour or Conservative led Government the debt is rising at a pretty consistent £100billion / year. The National Debt is roughly what ? £26/27k per head of population adult and child and the papers were banging on about Labour making the average family £4k worse off per year, that's only £1k per head onto the £26/27k. Appears to be a drop in the ocean really. The electorate really were given a shocking choice.
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Post by Hofmeister on Jun 9, 2017 16:26:34 GMT
Why does Northern Ireland have separate parties? Sinn Fein I understand, but why no Labour, Liberal or Conservatives? If you had the opportunity, wouldn't you dump Labour, Liberals or Conservatives?
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