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Post by crankcase on Jul 27, 2017 10:46:08 GMT
You'll probably never make the numbers work. It's all about the green, innit.
Having said that, the experience of putting £75 of diesel in the Volvo yesterday (fourth time this year) was horrible. Back in Zoe today after our holiday and not thinking about fuel stations again this year now. Or tax. Or mot. Or servicing. Or repairs. And it's quiet and civilised and lovely to drive the 16 miles to the shops and back, which we just did.
Just saying.
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Alanović
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Post by Alanović on Jul 27, 2017 11:40:19 GMT
Well exactly. That's how numbers add up. I spend about £300 a month on average on petrol and diesel (have genuine number in a spreadsheet, it's actually £308 at the moment). Add in £25 a month for VED on one car, equals £325. I can lease a brand new Leaf for about £180 a month. If it costs me £40 a month in electricity, I am winning to the tune of about £1200 a year. Then, as you say, add in maintenance and servicing (call it £1500 a year) etc and I'm further ahead. Much more on electricity though and the gap starts to close.
Greenery is a bonus to me in this case, not a motivating factor.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jul 27, 2017 14:34:34 GMT
Does your £308pm average on diesel/petrol include longer trips, e.g. travels in Europe or simply longer journeys you'd still do in the Mercedes? Or is your £308 just for commuting and local journeys?
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Alanović
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Post by Alanović on Jul 27, 2017 14:46:38 GMT
Yeah, does include all mileage. I suppose I have to factor that out. But it will have to be an estimate. It's probably about 3-4k miles a year.
Bloody man maths realists.
My reality maths is failing me now. Hang on. I'll see if I can work it out.
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Alanović
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Post by Alanović on Jul 27, 2017 15:19:08 GMT
Let's say I'd do 12,000 miles a year in a Leaf. That's the mileage I'd be after on a lease, it's the closest approximation I can make of my annual mileage which I could do in that particular electric car, given its range. Let's be on the generous side and say I do 4k other mileage, which will be done in the Merc at 40mpg. This is borne out by my having done 17k miles since last May, which includes two Vendee runs and two long distance return trips (Loch Lomond and back twice) which I don't usually do. So I’m on about 15k per annum, plus a 1k or so in the Mazda. So 16k mileage overall pa.
My pence per mile in the Merc is 25p (fuel only). So, if I kept that as car 2 alongside a Leaf, 4k miles, = £1k in fuel per annum. Let's assume £3 to recharge a Leaf, 100 miles per charge. Over 12,000 miles, that's £360, so £1360 in fuel over a year between the 2 vee-hickles. As opposed to £3696 in the Merc only. PPM in the Leaf on fuel only is 3p.
Lease on the Leaf, £200 a month including the upfront lease 3 months for example, = £2400pa. Plus the £1360 in diesel and electric for both cars, £3760. £64 quid DEARER over the year.
This is roughly even for the sake of argument, right? Then subtract savings from no VED and no servicing/maintenance on the Mazda which the Leaf would replace, which is about £1000, best estimate (Home service plus VED plus finger-in-air-repair bills). So I'm roughly gaining £1000 over a year.
So the benefit of getting a Leaf is £1000, peace of mind over maintenance/breakdowns etc, and a nice green halo over my ginger bonce.
Two questions: 1) Have I got this right? Remaining assumption is that insurance costs remain equal. 2) The gains are pretty marginal, so is it worth it?
Sorry, third question: Does anyone give a monkey's?
Looking at it another way, I'm saving about £85 a month if I do it, which is about one of my three tanks of fuel per month.
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Post by Humph on Jul 27, 2017 15:33:52 GMT
Or, quite a lot of Creme Eggs.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jul 27, 2017 16:51:28 GMT
Sounds about right - it's marginal is what I'm seeing. My average monthly cost for petrol in my car is say £95/month. I'd have saved money with the Passat GTE because most of my weekly journeys could be done on electric even though the range is 30 miles (tops). The argument fell apart when you factor in not having suitable off-road parking to charge it and trailing leads across pavements is not a good idea.
Sounds like you'd make a saving. But then you'd save if your main car cost less than 25p a mile in fuel. Is it really that high? My A3 petrol costs about 14p a mile for petrol. The previous diesel Passat was also around 14ppm and that was when fuel was more expensive.
And yes it is interesting :-)
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Post by crankcase on Jul 27, 2017 17:11:48 GMT
Looking at it another way, I'm saving about £85 a month if I do it, which is about one of my three tanks of fuel per month.
Yes, but...
You own the Mazda. What's that worth? How much will it depreciate over the period you might lease the Leaf?
And what will the Leaf be worth to you at the end of your lease?
And finally, have you looked at year old Leafs to purchase? Might be cheaper, but still have ages on the guarantee etc...and you own it at the end. Taken into account Nissan's current special offer on the Acenta 24?
Like I say, the numbers can go anywhere you want them to. Coincidentally, I was doing the same calcs today, and deciding that when the Zoe pcp ends in five months, at current EV prices it's unaffordable for me now. I can save over £100 a month by just getting a little Aygo or something, though it would pain me greatly to go back to the Stone Age.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jul 27, 2017 17:53:51 GMT
>> And finally, have you looked at year old Leafs to purchase?
He probably doesn't want to take out a loan for a second hand car.
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Post by Humph on Jul 27, 2017 19:08:07 GMT
My son's Aygo seems to be getting about 60 mpg. Fun to drive too surprisingly enough.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jul 27, 2017 22:26:00 GMT
I do 4k other mileage, which will be done in the Merc at 40mpg ... My pence per mile in the Merc is 25p (fuel only). . Don't think so. 40 mpg is about 9 miles per litre, so at £1.17 it would be 13p a mile in fuel. (I've heard the older S211 engines are better on fuel; I'll be pleased to see 38mpg from our E220 on the long trip starting tomorrow.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jul 27, 2017 23:25:24 GMT
If the Merc can do 40mpg.... what does the monthly fuel spending say? You said £308 but I assume some of that is for the Mazda petrol.
Around here, 40mpg and diesel would mean at £1.109 per litre and £308pm on average would mean £3700pa in fuel so would mean I could do around 29k miles pa.
So what's the problem with mpg.... you seem to do closer to 20mpg from your figures.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Jul 28, 2017 0:00:14 GMT
As I've often said, finance is a vital ingredient in decisions about motoring, but it's not the only one.
What this is about surely is peace of mind. Reliability for the daily commute, and cutting the miles down on the German taxi so that it should last longer. And although I've never tried one, I believe Leafs (Leaves?) are good to drive.
On finance, I hadn't realised that personal leasng was as good value as the figures you quote. I suppose the cost takes into account the horrific depreciation suffered on a Leaf, but at least you don't get hit directly by it.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jul 28, 2017 0:21:05 GMT
I think the figures were marginal but the Leaf could work. But £308pm in fuel suggests a lot less than 40mpg to me.
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Post by Hofmeister on Jul 28, 2017 8:17:32 GMT
>> And finally, have you looked at year old Leafs to purchase? I'll have a rummage around in my compost bin, I'm sure I can do him a good deal
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