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ukip
Oct 6, 2016 21:31:01 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 21:31:01 GMT
I don't think even I would expect an Islamic takeover, based upon the numbers within the UK. It's the principle that concerns me. Two groups of people who normally be at total loggerheads find a common cause. That's not unusual in realpolitik, but it's the lack of understanding by one side that they really are supping with the devil. How can the lefties get cosy with Muslim radicals, invite them into the UK to spout really nasty stuff, when their cousins are killing hundreds of thousands across the Middle East?
That is the issue that UKIP have been making hay with.
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ukip
Oct 6, 2016 21:46:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 21:46:17 GMT
A religious fanatic is a bad and dangerous thing, whatever the religion - Islamic, Catholic, Jewish, Pizzafarian or anything else. If that religious fanatic is in a position of power, then its a really bloody bad thing for everybody. The principle of an Islamic takeover concerns me no more and no less than a Jewish, Catholic or Hindu takeover. All offend me.
All fanatics are bad, but religious fanatics are without doubt the worst. All of them.
The issues that UKIP have been making hay with are ignorance, fear or some combination of both and a need for scapegoats. And, with respect, and honestly without meaning offence, some of the comments in the preceding posts play right into that strategy.
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ukip
Oct 6, 2016 22:17:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 22:17:00 GMT
I agree. Politics and religion don't mix. The combination is lethal (literally in some cases). But people are making the deliberate connection and others are exposing it. But the way it is being exposed can lead to apparently racist comments.
Currently the only obvious mix of government and religion is in the middle east. In all cases it has lead to multiple deaths and a lack of justice/freedom for some sectors of society. The common factor is Islam. 500 years ago it was Christianity that was the common factor. Judaism 2,000 years ago? Maybe... but if it's not called out in some way, it is allowed to continue. How do you do it with being called a racist?
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WDB
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ukip
Oct 6, 2016 22:51:57 GMT
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Post by WDB on Oct 6, 2016 22:51:57 GMT
Currently the only obvious mix of government and religion is in the middle east. Perhaps you don't take much notice of politics in the US, where lurks fundamentalism every bit as pernicious as you'd find in Hamas.
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 1:23:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 1:23:43 GMT
>>Currently the only obvious mix of government and religion is in the middle east. In all cases it has lead to multiple deaths and a lack of justice/freedom for some sectors of society.
Entirely agree.
>>The common factor is Islam
Well, that's not entirely true, now is it. The common factor is religion, *one of which* is Islam.
For example, I know that Israel is nominally a secular Government but Judaism is preferentially treated. Even [non-religious] Israelis don't entirely agree with the current status and believe that it should be a wholly secular state. A path which is rejected by practicing Jews within the Establishment.
And before you tell me that it isn't, then consider where an atheist could get married in Israel. Or how he might go about importing non-kosher food.
Religion has no place in Government.
Mostly religion is not an issue where racism is relevant, though it certainly attracts bigotry.
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 5:53:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 5:53:30 GMT
Hmmm. WDB interesting point, especially if you think about abortion law.
Otto, also good point although at least in Israel they have a reasonably calm argument rather killing each other. The marriage issue is a sore point, but non-kosher food is readily available without any difficulties. The large influx of immigrants the former Soviet Union, many of whom are not Jewish has create large demand and the establishment of many shops selling shellfish and pig. Also Arab Israelis is are not bound by kosher rules, so the Christians among them also eat pig and shellfish.
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 8:50:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 8:50:51 GMT
I don't think even I would expect an Islamic takeover, based upon the numbers within the UK. It's the principle that concerns me. Two groups of people who normally be at total loggerheads find a common cause. That's not unusual in realpolitik, but it's the lack of understanding by one side that they really are supping with the devil. How can the lefties get cosy with Muslim radicals, invite them into the UK to spout really nasty stuff, when their cousins are killing hundreds of thousands across the Middle East? That is the issue that UKIP have been making hay with. One has to ask the obvious question I'm afraid - what the creosoted consarnation has any of that got to do with the EU? Didn't UKIP exist to campaign for our 'independence' from the EU, rather than some non-existent Islamic take-over? How much Islamic migration comes from the EU?
Sadly we now seem to have BLUKIP government, Farage himself was at pains to point out how May has stolen their ground almost entirely whilst trying to paint herself as the 'centre ground'.
I'm now keeping a close eye on the situation in Scotland, any sign of independence there and I'll be off like a shot. I was no way in favour of independence at the time of their referendum, but with hindsight it now looks like they made a terrible mistake. I hope they get their independence now.
Which brings me to quite an easy solution to the brexit problem we are now faced with - England and Wales should secede from the UK, forming a new Glorious Kingdom of Wangland, outside of the EU. Scotland and Northern Ireland can carry on in the EU as per their wishes as the United Kingdom successor state. Perhaps they could propose a Unified Celtic Republic with the rest of Ireland. Capital city in Belfast or maybe Derry, what a boost that would be to the place. Ulster Nationalists and Loyalists both accommodated in one fell swoop.
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WDB
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:04:17 GMT
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Post by WDB on Oct 7, 2016 9:04:17 GMT
You're missing London and much of the Southeast (including the bit I live in) which were also strongly pro-Remain. Can we secede too? Or let's just pile the ukip lot up in Essex and East Anglia and cast them adrift. They'll be so busy forging their exciting new trade links with Belarus and Fiji that they won't even notice.
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:04:39 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 9:04:39 GMT
I wouldn't give the Unified Celtic Republic two minutes before it went bankrupt.
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WDB
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:17:57 GMT
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Post by WDB on Oct 7, 2016 9:17:57 GMT
They could call it the Celtic Union of Nations, but it would need a Treaty to establish it...
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:21:34 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 9:21:34 GMT
A bit below the belt that one was......
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:34:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 9:34:54 GMT
I wouldn't give the Unified Celtic Republic two minutes before it went bankrupt. Why? It would be FREE, independent, isn't that all that matters theses days anyway, economic growth be damned! Short term pain for long term gain!
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:36:14 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 9:36:14 GMT
You're missing London and much of the Southeast (including the bit I live in) which were also strongly pro-Remain. Can we secede too? Or let's just pile the ukip lot up in Essex and East Anglia and cast them adrift. They'll be so busy forging their exciting new trade links with Belarus and Fiji that they won't even notice. Why not, London and the Thames Valley would make a fine, independent country.
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:39:28 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 9:39:28 GMT
Except Slough.
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ukip
Oct 7, 2016 9:42:08 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 9:42:08 GMT
It is not so much the fact that people voted to leave the EU, as it is the reasons that so many of them used that bothers me.
And already I see the argument appearing of "oh you can't blame [that bad thing] on Brexit, it might have happened anyway".
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