Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 1, 2023 17:53:14 GMT
I see in the news that EV owners are refused insurance on renewal or cannot get a quote. Or it is very expensive. One car said to be very expensive is a Tesla Model Y and some speculate whether it is parts availability.
I have a different theory why that Tesla is a lot more to insure - to keep costs lower Elon Musk decided to make the car with far fewer parts in the refresh. So huge sections of the main body are one piece. It has cut assembly time and cost and therefore cheaper for us to buy. But in an accident you cannot just unbold a part and replace.... you might find the majority of the car needs to be taken apart to get to the damaged part.
Just looked up the term they use - Giga Casting. It is all to simplify assembly. But what about repair?
Well that's my theory.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 1, 2023 17:58:14 GMT
Perhaps Musk has been too clever and insurance companies will mean people have to avoid some of the cars?
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Oct 1, 2023 18:12:55 GMT
Tesla was never on my list. A mate of mine has a model 3 performance which was involved in a hit and run.
He loves the car, the whole service up to now has been 5* but, and it's a big but, parts availability has always been Tesla's achilles.
Edit: I got an email from our insurance company today telling me the biggest cause of EV breakdown is 12v battery. No effing s**t ! Had this ongoing issue with KIA for eleven feckin' months !!!
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Oct 2, 2023 8:25:45 GMT
Seems extraordinary that Tesla (it can’t be Musk alone) would wilfully disregard repairability in updating its designs. Don’t they consult insurers as part of the design process?
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Post by Alanović on Oct 2, 2023 8:31:44 GMT
Musk isn't anything to do with it. He's just a younger Trump, an egomaniacal idiot flailing about with Daddy's money (in this case gained off the back of Apartheid), and becoming an increasingly mouthy alt-right conspiracy theorist. He has created nothing, simply purchased companies like PayPal and Tesla, and now Twitter too.
A couple of years ago I'd have bought a Tesla car. Now, no.
Yes, my Leaf insurance is higher than it would be on a comparable ICE car. The other running costs negate that, however.
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Post by Humph on Oct 2, 2023 8:50:48 GMT
Such matters feed the critical dichotomy. It further encourages the consumer to do nothing for now, while ever increasing the need for the industry to develop. However, without healthy sales revenue, the opportunities and wisdom of investment become at best, challenging.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Oct 2, 2023 9:19:59 GMT
Seems to be some jumping to conclusions here, as well as mistaking anecdote for evidence. Do we have examples for makes other than Tesla? Unusual bodywork is hardly an EV-specific issue. (And my i3 is made of carbon composite and isn’t expensive to insure.)
It may be a factor that many EVs — Tesla included — are notably faster in a straight line than fossil cars, and that insurers perceive this as an added risk — just as a Porsche costs more to insure than a Proton. I’ve not looked into insurance for an EV6 GT but I’d imagine — even kind of hope — that it attracts a bit of premium loading.
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Post by EspadaIII on Oct 2, 2023 9:22:48 GMT
Musk isn't anything to do with it. He's just a younger Trump, an egomaniacal idiot flailing about with Daddy's money (in this case gained off the back of Apartheid), and becoming an increasingly mouthy alt-right conspiracy theorist. He has created nothing, simply purchased companies like PayPal and Tesla, and now Twitter too. A couple of years ago I'd have bought a Tesla car. Now, no. Yes, my Leaf insurance is higher than it would be on a comparable ICE car. The other running costs negate that, however. Unlike Trump though Musk has taken the money and magnified it millions fold. Trump has done nothing with him inheritance. Musk is a weirdo but a clever one. Trump is simply an idiot. I don't like either one but I'd like to learn from Musk like people learn from Warren Buffett.
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Post by Alanović on Oct 2, 2023 9:44:01 GMT
I'm not sure I'm prepared to give him that much credit. Seems a clear case of riding other coat-tails to me, with a reasonable business acumen being the only thing he appears to have above Trump - although his wanton destruction of the value of Twitter is a point against. He's willfully changed that company and app in such a way as to destroy the value he bought, wich isn't too clever so far as I can see.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Oct 2, 2023 10:28:36 GMT
Seems to be some jumping to conclusions here, as well as mistaking anecdote for evidence. Do we have examples for makes other than Tesla? Unusual bodywork is hardly an EV-specific issue. (And my i3 is made of carbon composite and isn’t expensive to insure.) With KIA it's the usual far East brand not being a big enough market for spare parts manufacturers to bother with. Main dealer only for many parts but at least the supply chain is there, if somewhat limited in options available. Delivery time is measured in weeks rather than next day or two to three days we're used to for European marques.
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Post by Humph on Oct 2, 2023 11:26:29 GMT
I see a culture shift, particularly in the younger generation. Brand worship is becoming far less prevalent in their minds than it has been in recent decades. I see it happening in clothing and footwear and I have no doubt it is a position percolating throughout other consumer products. Often really quite nebulous values once attributed and attached to brands that had the effect of creating desirability and premiums are becoming far less persuasive. Price, availability and sadly, disposability are the new watchwords. Chatting over the weekend to my son and a group of his cronies about their cars, not one of them has any real interest in the subject, they want, and in many cases have a car, but it holds no intrigue for them, they just want “a car” that does what they need without over stretching their budgets. As a fashion statement, they have become far less appealing.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Oct 2, 2023 11:49:58 GMT
Could that be in part down to the standardisation of products ? When I was young BMW used to be "the ultimate driving machine" and to be fair they were pretty quick when compared with other similar vehicles and handled well. Now, with the standardisation of emissions and crash tests etc... it's just another car brand, the differentiators are negligible, it may even come down to who does the nicest colour.
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Post by EspadaIII on Oct 2, 2023 12:16:26 GMT
Yes. In the 1960s - 2000s you had really quite poor cars, cheaply made and cheaply sold. You paid more money for better build quality, better reliability and a better driving experience. Skoda in the 1970s was a joke as were all the Eastern Bloc manufacturers, but they were cheap transport. Various manufacturers were overtly quirky (Citroen par example) but gradually the extremes came closer as manufacturers became assemblers and standard products were sourced from Bosch etc. So a fuel pump in a Merc is now likely to be the same as in most other vehicles - maybe with some better fault checking but nothing different.
Eventually all 1.5L three cylinder engines produce the same power as they need to be clean and you can only do it one way. So everyone has the same car clad in in a different body.
We are going the way of washing machines and no one is bothered other than those keeping the classic cars alive.
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Post by Humph on Oct 2, 2023 12:38:53 GMT
All of the above. But also I think it’s a function of having a wider exposure to multiple interest stimuli. Much higher interest in tech than transportation. Having the latest greatest mobile phone is currently more appealing than having a new car. The group I was talking to are far more excited about spending their time and money on attending music festivals, holidays, eating out and having adventures than owning cars.
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Post by Alanović on Oct 2, 2023 12:45:41 GMT
Could that be in part down to the standardisation of products ? When I was young BMW used to be "the ultimate driving machine" and to be fair they were pretty quick when compared with other similar vehicles and handled well. Now, with the standardisation of emissions and crash tests etc... it's just another car brand, the differentiators are negligible, it may even come down to who does the nicest colour. Peugeot.
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