bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on Apr 30, 2022 7:26:51 GMT
Tesla would still be top of my list simply because of their charging network. Yes other chargers are growing in quantity but so is the number of EVs on the road that require them. How's that going to work when the Tesla network is opened up to all makes as Musk has talked about doing ? I bought my car because Evian water bottles slot neatly into the washer reservoir refill slot. I still use the kettle and water from the tap to fill it up though. You'll still do 90%+ of charging at home because it's more convenient unless you live next door to a supercharger in which case you'll be more concerned about powerlines and EMF.
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,352
|
Post by WDB on Apr 30, 2022 9:40:15 GMT
Superchargers are a selling point now, while the public fast-charger network is still patchy. But they will eventually be swamped in numbers by open-to-all chargers, at which point Tesla will reasonably decide that there’s more to be made from drivers wanting to use them than from the extra Tesla sales exclusivity brings in. By then, chargers will be as ubiquitous and easy to use as petrol pumps, so the value of exclusive Tesla chargers concentrated around cities and motorways will be much diluted.
It’s a common mistake (and I’m not pointing at you, BPG) to base decisions about the future on the standards of today, especially in a market developing as fast as EVs.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on Apr 30, 2022 15:35:42 GMT
I never gave public charging a second thought when we were looking for our BEV because I knew the bulk of charging would be done at home.
My day job let me know the BP and Shell companies of the world in addition to start ups would cover me without resorting to Tesla.
Tesla were smart and put a network out there to support their customers when they needed it. Ionity is a collaboration of amongst others German based manufacturers. NL Shell seems to have saturation of the fast charge market.
They will all ramp up as BEV sales ramp up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 16:07:39 GMT
>>They will all ramp up as BEV sales ramp up.
Which will be about the same moment as Governments start to look for replacement taxation.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on Apr 30, 2022 16:13:14 GMT
Think that ball is already rolling. Governments are hooked on carbon taxes and will have to replace them. 20% VAT charged for public charging Vs 5% for home charging. Pay per mile looks the most likely replacement though I'm sure some ingenious overly complex system could be integrated into the car covering all aspects of motoring.
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,352
|
Post by WDB on May 18, 2022 10:14:19 GMT
My BMW salesman called yesterday to wish the i3S a happy first birthday. We had a bit of a chat about the global supply situation, some of which makes Esp’s nine-month wait seem like a mild inconvenience. The i4 is exciting a lot of interest but don’t expect to get one on a 22 plate, or even a 72.
But he has got an iX3 demo car, and he’s keen for me to try it. So I’m going to do that this weekend. It’s not a car I’m expecting to like — essentially a dual-duty crossover chassis that’s been adapted for batteries, so likely to suffer the same compromised packaging that put me off the Mercedes EQC. But it’s got a fairly unmessed-with BMW interior, which is generally a good thing (apart from those long rows of indistinguishable buttons) so let’s see how it does for space and comfort.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on May 18, 2022 11:18:35 GMT
My motorbike had it's 10th birthday this year.
I started toying with the idea of replacing it with an electric motorbike, I don't need 2+ tonnes of BEV to transport me and my laptop to work for at least 6 months of the year.
Zero look like the Tesla of the bike world. Further digging reveals battery capacity is about 14kWh, about the same as a PHEV car, charging is restricted though the best being 6kW for an additional 2+k€. Range is the issue though. They claim about 120 miles which is comparable with my petrol powered bike then I read the reviews. Riding at motorbike speed (70 mph) the range is about 60 miles. My commute is 50 miles. Factor in battery degradation of 15% and I'm pushing it home everyday.
The price ? 27,000€ about the same as a top of the range Yamaha R1 superbike.
Think I'll do a Humph on that and wait it out a bit. The day will come, just not yet.
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,352
|
Post by WDB on May 20, 2022 21:38:36 GMT
Is the 6kW charger restricted by what will fit a motorcycle chassis? I’ve no idea what a car’s onboard charger looks like as they’re so well concealed I’ve never seen one.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on May 20, 2022 22:18:21 GMT
They're not small. I'll see if I can take a photo tomorrow. With no frunk KIA just slapped an engine sound proofing cover over the electric motor for under bonnet aesthetics.
A motorbike it's obviously much more difficult to conceal this stuff. Packaging space is tight.
The charger for the bike is 'only' type 2, no CCS for fast charge.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,721
|
Post by Rob on May 21, 2022 0:56:08 GMT
>> The charger for the bike is 'only' type 2, no CCS for fast charge.
So only AC charging and no rapid DC charging,
When I tried to engage with people at one of the charge points I used I worked out most have no idea. Ignoring the rapid DC point there are two 22kW plugs.Most cars won't do near that but the owners have not got a clue.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on May 21, 2022 6:16:45 GMT
Correct. The on-board charger is only required for AC, DC goes to the battery via the battery management system, no need for conversion.
The giveaway is the charge port, if it's using the two extra pins then it's DC. PHEV don't generally have the additional pins. PHEV
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,352
|
Post by WDB on May 21, 2022 6:34:57 GMT
22kW chargers are AC and it was only when I used one for the first time, and was surprised at how slowly it was charging, that I burrowed into the manual and discovered that even the i3S is limited to 11kW AC.
I expect it’s a sensible design decision, given that AC charging requires hefty conversion equipment on board and 22kW AC presumably requires more of it. High-power AC is a comparative rarity anyway, and future expansion will be in higher-power DC, so it makes sense not to over-invest in a dead-end technology.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on May 21, 2022 9:01:55 GMT
The issue is most mains electricity in houses and buildings in Europe is AC. At the moment it's more convenient to have the converter on the vehicle than have a converter where you need charge.
Al's mum is not going to invest in a converter for his few nights a year visits.
Edit: that and the fact PHEVs can only take AC and will be on sale for another 13 years. I'm not sure about the physics of charging a relatively small PHEV battery with a big thump of 175kW DC.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,733
|
Post by bpg on May 21, 2022 10:18:04 GMT
Is the 6kW charger restricted by what will fit a motorcycle chassis? I’ve no idea what a car’s onboard charger looks like as they’re so well concealed I’ve never seen one. Here you go, the not so well concealed OBC from KIA:
For whatever reason I thought it was the house phase 3 limiting the charge rate, it was the car all along. My home charger can run 22kW.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,721
|
Post by Rob on May 21, 2022 12:21:02 GMT
With PHEVs starting to get much larger batteries it will be more common for at least optimal DC charging on PHEVs. The only one I know of so far is a Mercedes.
|
|