bpg
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Post by bpg on May 11, 2023 9:40:58 GMT
Suppose we're all getting to that age where comfort takes priority over the driving experience  The Lotus will be more exclusive but it, y'know, sends profits outside Europe over the red wall to do with as the Chinese Government will. With great wealth comes great financial responsibility padowan. |
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2023 9:44:59 GMT
Comfort was always part of the driving experience. The machines that are both comfortable and fun to drive are the real sweet spot.
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Post by Humph on May 11, 2023 9:46:29 GMT
I’ve been there for a while. Wafting trumps whizzing most of the time.
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Post by EspadaIII on May 11, 2023 9:55:14 GMT
Unless you were in your Westie  And wafting behind a nice 3.0 V6 is much nicer than a 2.2 van engine. I do get pangs of desire when I see the Taycan Tourer and £40,000 more than my car almost makes sense. In other news... Summer is arriving and range is magically extending. Two months ago I was lucky to see 200 miles on the range meter at a full charge, now it is a minimum of 245 miles. Hoping for a couple of degrees on the thermometer and the range will get up to 280 miles. I have also decided that range is a red herring. The Telegraph ran an article on Saturday about the cars with the longest range. These cars are (very) expensive and driven mainly by middle aged men whose bladders do not function as well as they used to. Hence the range is irrelevant, as long as it is about 20% longer than ones bladder will hold out for. For me, 200 miles is a maximum for a drive. |
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2023 10:18:42 GMT
And wafting behind a nice 3.0 V6 is much nicer than a 2.2 van engine. The 3.0 is a van engine too, as mine occasionally reminds me. The BMW 3.0d is an altogether better-mannered beast - but also more space-hungry, which impinges on comfort in other ways. ...the range is irrelevant, as long as it is about 20% longer than ones bladder will hold out for. For me, 200 miles is a maximum for a drive. Mostly true, although the real game-changer will be when charging points appear in hedgerows. |
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Post by EspadaIII on May 11, 2023 11:11:52 GMT
"Mostly true, although the real game-changer will be when charging points appear in hedgerows."
Ouch - or more likely - bzzzzz, BANG!
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 11, 2023 12:37:46 GMT
For me, the real game changer will be when I can use the full range and not be limited to 60% if I want to protect the battery life.
EspIII talks about 280 miles range. That is reduced to 168 if sticking to the 20-80 range for the life of the battery.
The latest data from charging of our car is giving a theoretical range of 312 miles which is better than the 280 mile manufacturer figure but the real world numbers between charges is still in the 140-180 range.
I've also run the numbers for the two cars we've had on lease since 2020. The petrol works out at 0.54€/km, the EV 0.70€/km.
The bulk of the difference is in leasing costs though insurance is more expensive for EV and the servicing costs are too close to say servicing an EV is cheaper than an ICE @ 350€/year for petrol v 310€/year for EV based on the first two services. Fuel for the EV is cheaper due to the bulk of charging being done at home on domestic rates. Fast charging at 70+c/kW would push the EV cost/km higher.
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Post by Humph on May 11, 2023 13:00:09 GMT
Fuel consumption, whatever the drivetrain, is only one factor in the cost of running a car. All very well getting cheap mileage on the one hand, but less attractive if you’re paying out hundreds a month in leases or depreciation.
My car was paid for in full years ago with money earned long before that and long since forgotten. It still costs something to fuel and operate of course but it’s super cheap motoring now in the scheme of things.
If it fails irreparably at some point, then so be it, I’ll just start again with something else paid for by the money I’m not spending now on this one.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2023 13:21:29 GMT
Is there any real-world evidence that batteries do degrade with use? I saw no hint of it over four years with the first i3 — when we always let it charge to full at its preferred rate — and reports (admittedly anecdotal) from those who’ve run EVs over greater periods and distances suggest it’s a non-concern over achievable lifespans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2023 13:25:48 GMT
No evidence on either of my Leafses, which are supposed to be ded within a couple of years.  |
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 11, 2023 13:56:59 GMT
None of us do any real heavy lifting with an EV, daily run at speed, fast charger, run at speed, week in, week out.
I've seen a video on Uchoob of someone in Virginia, I think it was, making a 600+ miles run down to Florida in a Leaf. Because that car does not have battery cooling, he left home with a full charge then managed only another two public charges before he had to book an overnight hotel to allow the battery to cool before he could start again next day. What would normally be a 12-14 hour journey turned into a two day event. We've all seen how mobile phones hate that charge, drain, charge, drain cycle. Newer EVs have battery temperature management though the underlying chemistry is the same.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2023 13:57:28 GMT
Doing the sums, a lithium battery is reckoned to last 500-1000 charge cycles, where a 'charge cycle' is using and replacing 100 percent of its capacity. That 100 percent might be good for 250 miles, so even 500 of those give us a life of 125,000 miles. We've all seen laptop and phone batteries go bad, but those are typically exhausted and replenished every day, so 500 cycles might last only a couple of years. An EV battery, probably with a rather more sophisticated charging circuit and software, and completing even two charge cycles a week, ought to last several times longer - by which time it'll be in an old car, with commensurately lower expectations, as with fossil cars.
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Post by Humph on May 11, 2023 13:59:25 GMT
Must be evergreen leafs then, don’t fall off in the Autumn of their years?
😬
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 11, 2023 14:01:28 GMT
Yes, and that's an old and, by today's standards, primitive design. Not built for extreme use cases like Virginia-to-Florida, but pretty effective for most everyday purposes.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on May 11, 2023 14:14:03 GMT
The current perceived wisdom being 20%-80% covering 140 miles* between charges only gives us 70,000 miles which is back to the 1970s motoring.
Looking on various sales websites there are electric vehicles having covered four and five times that mileage.
The acid test is taxi firms and couriers. I've read of taxi companies running EVs but then they never seem to take the plunge and convert the whole fleet. That will obviously come, I'd love to see the data of those vehicles.
* Based on my record keeping over the last six months, that will improve over the Spring and Summer months.
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