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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 29, 2020 1:06:15 GMT
Thanks all. It's not sunk in yet but so far I'm ok. Lots of friends around to look after me for the next week.
He had a long and mostly very good life and only the last six months were really rough for him. Just wish this final period had been less stressful for him.
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Post by Alanović on Jul 29, 2020 8:42:32 GMT
My deepest condolences, EIII. Well done for being there, and best wishes for what comes next. Thinking of you.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Jul 29, 2020 9:25:03 GMT
It's worth making a conscious effort for you and all the family to remember him as he was before he got ill, so that a good image sticks in the mind for the future.
Years ago I shared an office with a practising Jewish guy whose father died. He found that the rituals that had to be followed gave him great comfort, partly because he was doing the right thing for his father but also because it kept him occupied. Maybe that'll help you too. We wish you all the best.
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Post by dixinormus on Jul 29, 2020 9:59:44 GMT
Yes, to echo Avant’s thoughts, take solace from a life well lived. Remember the good times. My thoughts are with you.
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 29, 2020 11:48:14 GMT
well, I'm back from the funeral (it was bloody hot out there in the sun - at least 32C with no shade) where I gave a short, well received eulogy.
Now starting the ritual mouring process which as Avant has alluded to, is a wonderful way of just easing the grief and slowly getting used to the idea of being bereaved. I have no qualms about ignoring emails and will only respond to those which are of a condolence nature. Everything else can wait or I will forward to colleagues.
Despite a maximum of 20 people allowed at funerals there were probably about 30 and Espadrille said that well over 100 people zoomed in (which probably means closer to 150 individuals watching). My father was a greatly admired person for his business honesty and musical knowledge (he was one of the first people to record old operatic 78s onto LPs, so I grew up on Caruso etc), so the numbers attending was a great comfort.
I only realised just before we started that a representative of the mourners has to identify the body before burial. Dad looked a lot worse than yesterday; it shook me a bit, but the whole process of Jewish burials and mourning, gets you into a different mindset. You have to get into a routine and as I had done it seven years before for Mum, I slipped into auto-pilot with only a few gulps when I realised why I was there.
Now sitting conmfortably on a low chair with Espadrille keeping me company on Zoom until people come to visit.
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Post by Alanović on Jul 29, 2020 12:13:43 GMT
Astonishing to me that funerals happen so quickly in other cultures. My sister's father-in-law passed on 15th July, the funeral isn't until 7th August. He was elderly of course and suffering dementia, plus a raft of other afflictions. He was a larger than life figure who I was quite fond of, we had a similar love for life, OK, a similar love for beer and wine then, and I was always the one who he would trust to quietly fetch him a glass when the wife wasn't looking. I shall miss him.
As dixi said, a life well lived, as with EIII's Dad. Fascinating story about the 78s by the way. Would love to hear more.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jul 29, 2020 12:58:55 GMT
A lot of these things we think of as ‘religious’ have robustly practical origins. Remember that both Islam and Judaism began in a hot region long before refrigeration, so it was simple good sense not to keep the dead among the living for long. It probably helped then that communities were smaller and families mostly stayed local, so there were fewer complicated arrangements to make for a funeral.
Given all that’s different in modern life, though, I agree it’s remarkable that it still works today.
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 29, 2020 13:11:43 GMT
It astonishes me that 'you' wait so long. Why wait? They die, and assuming no issues, bury/cremate them.. The family are usually aware of impending death and (Covid notwithstanding) people can get from one side of the world to the other in 24 hours.
I have no real idea how Dad got into the operatic recording scene but he was well known in that sector in the 50s and early 60s. I do know that my mother met him at a party when he was sitting on the floor playing records and talking about them but no-one was listening. Roll forward 40 years and people would drive miles to hear one of his lectures...
Within a few years of me arriving however he was a successful businessman selling heating oil and became the largest independent seller of heating oil in the North West for about a decade with a large staff who were devoted to him because he treated them very well.
So many lovely tributes have arrived by WhatsApp, email etc. Makes me very proud.
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Post by Alanović on Jul 29, 2020 13:25:41 GMT
I've no direct experience of arranging a funeral yet, when my Dad died I was only 13, and Mum's still with us, a mere spring chicken at 72 (and a half and a bit more). No spouse or any other next of kin to bury yet either. So I don't know but I'd always assumed it takes a few days/weeks to get through the coroner's system, and then you need to wait get a time slot at the crematorium/cemetery etc. Dunno. How do Jews/Muslims get their dead through the coroner's more quickly than the rest of us in the UK, there can't be dedicated coroner/priority arrangements can there? Maybe there are. Don't know.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Jul 29, 2020 15:59:41 GMT
When I first played the organ for funerals - about 50 years ago - they happened ASAP after the death for obvious reasons, as they still do in hot countries. But at least in the UK, undertakers (sorry, funeral directors) have much more advanced ways of preserving bodies.
I've known funerals up to a month after death, including my mum's. When she died in 2017 (aged 99) my son was about to go off on holiday with his family to the USA, and the undertakers were quite happy to wait until they came back. They said it was entirely our choice when to have it. Fortunately if someone dies quite obviously of natural causes you don't need a coroner's inquest.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jul 29, 2020 19:47:38 GMT
You'd be surprised. I know of someone coming home from hospital for their last days (on morphime pump, two huge oxygen machines to supply air, etc.). Coroner wanted an inquest but issued an interim certificate so a funeral could happen. Inquest was months later and no post mortem needed.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jul 29, 2020 19:48:27 GMT
Espada I am glad the day has gone well and you have people to support and comfort you. It's lucky we have the likes of Zoom so your wife can be with you do. Thinking of you.
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Post by bromptonaut on Jul 29, 2020 19:57:05 GMT
I've no direct experience of arranging a funeral yet, when my Dad died I was only 13, and Mum's still with us, a mere spring chicken at 72 (and a half and a bit more). No spouse or any other next of kin to bury yet either. So I don't know but I'd always assumed it takes a few days/weeks to get through the coroner's system, and then you need to wait get a time slot at the crematorium/cemetery etc. Dunno. How do Jews/Muslims get their dead through the coroner's more quickly than the rest of us in the UK, there can't be dedicated coroner/priority arrangements can there? Maybe there are. Don't know. Both Parents and both of Mrs B's in my adult lifetime. Odd one professionally when working with the Court of Protection. In latter capacity one of my colleagues and a Council Official were the only mourners for some poor, but not financially worthless, alcoholic. Brief involvement with the Coroner for my Mother and for Mrs B's Dad both of whom died following incidents at home but not complicated; heart disease already well recorded. I think there was some controversy involving one of the London Coroners and extent to which weight could be given to cultural factors and 'fast tracking' inquiries but I cannot remember the details.
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 30, 2020 5:56:12 GMT
Bromp - the case you refer to was the Hackney coroner who was being rather racist is denying those of us with Middle Eastern cultural connections (Jews, Muslims etc) a swift burial in line with our preferences. She was taken to Court by a coalition of religious organisations and found severly wanting in the discrimination department. Mary HassellThe partner in the law firm dealing with it is a good friend.
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Post by Alanović on Jul 30, 2020 8:50:14 GMT
I'd say that Christianity could also be described as having Middle Eastern cultural connections.
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