Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 9:45:51 GMT
SKS?
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Post by EspadaIII on Dec 20, 2021 9:54:47 GMT
Sir Keir Starmer.
And just read that the whole country aged over 60 is 95+% boosted. London is down at 75%. What is going on? No wonder rates are through the roof. Why is Sadiq Khan not getting his people out there rather than wingeing to the press about an 'emergency'. Just get it sorted!
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 20, 2021 9:55:33 GMT
New lockdown measures seem imminent! Do we rely on these modellers too much? They always seem to forecast huge infection rates and subsequent deaths... I can’t be the only one who is getting sceptical? Do you actually look at the numbers, Norm? There are about 1.4m people in the UK with Covid symptoms and a total of about 140,000 hospital beds, of which over 90% are typically occupied in winter. So if only 1% of those people require hospital treatment, the entire system will be full. (Data from Zoe and the King’s Fund.) Once that happens, don’t have a heart attack or a road accident as there’ll be nowhere to go. That’s before you account for staff absent with illness or positive tests. The UK has drastically reduced the number of hospital beds — some for sound clinical reasons about spending less time in hospital but mostly to save money and keep taxes low — and has fewer per head than anywhere in the developed world except Sweden, and barely half the EU average (data from World Bank) so there’s really very little room for error.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 20, 2021 10:10:54 GMT
Compared to the almost North Korean style of Covid rules in Europe we are free, even with Plan B. Is that load of hyperbolics from a Telegraph editorial?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 10:14:45 GMT
Sir Keir Starmer. And just read that the whole country aged over 60 is 95+% boosted. London is down at 75%. What is going on? No wonder rates are through the roof. Why is Sadiq Khan not getting his people out there rather than wingeing to the press about an 'emergency'. Just get it sorted! Oh right. If you think "gravitas" is the deciding factor then, where is Alex Johnson's and where was it in December 2019, and who amongst the favourites to replace him posesses it, such that you would be again convinced to continue voting for the party? Struggling to see how Sadiq Khan is in any way responsible for any deficiencies in the national vaccination campaign?
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Post by EspadaIII on Dec 20, 2021 10:40:01 GMT
But it's not national. It's London and he spend too much time getting involved in national matters when he should be concentrating on London matters. I'm no Labour supporter! but at least Andy Burnham spends his time dealing with Manchester stuff and Manchester stuff only.
If there was a general election today I would not vote at all if Boris was the Tory leader. I might vote if eitehr Rishi Sunak or Liz Truss were. I like her because she was like me, a Remainer, who has realised that now we are out of the EU we have to do the best thing for the UK. I am increasingly disliking Rees-Mogg as being a person who has even more self-interest than Boris. Politeness only get you so far.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 10:45:30 GMT
Interesting comment about Truss. I look forward to her imminent announcement as the new Minister on point regarding our re-entry to both the single market and the customs union. Which is of course the only available option under the heading "best thing for the UK" at the moment. It was not on the ballot paper to leave those arrangements 5 and a half years ago, so shouldn't be a problem. After all, nobody was talking about threatening our place in the single market. I remember that promise distinctly.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 20, 2021 11:00:11 GMT
Yes, and we’ve also seen ample evidence in just 11 months outside the Single Market that being out here does the UK vastly more harm than good. (I know, who’d have guessed?)
Be that as it may, does anyone really see Liz Truss as anything but a vain, slightly photogenic opportunist? She can hardly be a worse foreign secretary than the 24-carat idiot Dominic Raab but that’s a pretty low bar to clear and she brought in approximately none of the promised hatful of fat foreign trade deals when that was her job. It doesn’t make her fit for higher office.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 11:19:36 GMT
EIII, the issue I've got with your approach to voting which you are outlining here, I think (and it has just occurred to me), is that you're far to focussed on leaders of the "other" parties. If you look at Starmer's wider front bench, which would you rather have in the Cabinet - those people or Johnson's team? We are supposed to be a country in which we elect a Parliament, which then chooses an Executive in the form of a Cabinet. We are not electing a head of government directly. The Head emerges as the leader of a government by Cabinet. Or at least should. And I trust Starmer to return us to a model closer to that. All of which would be a good reason to vote for his party, and is far more important than any notion of "gravitas" in a party leader - which I note you don't seem to have answered with regard to Johnson and his team, other than to claim that abstention would be the best approach?
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Post by EspadaIII on Dec 20, 2021 12:14:18 GMT
The head of a party guides the whole ethos of government. Can you imagine if Corbyn was in power? It would be anti-semitism all round, an incompetent cabinet (and yes Diane Abbott is incompetent irrespective of her colour - she is also a hypocrite about education as most of the Labour party is) and we would have millions dead, either with of becase of Covid.
So yes, I know there are a handful of people in Westminster who can run a country but it is the leader who appoints them.
Frankly I want government to be run by people who can run a large business. Michael O'Leary sounds like the right bloke....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 12:20:56 GMT
Corbyn is now irrelevant. The choice is Starmer's front bench or Johnson's. Your choice is evidently to abstain on that one, my view is clear that the former is infinitely preferable to the latter.
We've had a recent example of an experiment in electing a business leader to government, in the USA. It did not go well. Government has to provide and run public servies, and the principles of business aren't necessarily best at delivering those.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 20, 2021 12:35:02 GMT
Frankly I want government to be run by people who can run a large business. Michael O'Leary sounds like the right bloke.... That makes you sound like Trump. I know this idea of running a country like a business — or even a household — is a favourite simplistic trope of rightwingers in the press and elsewhere, I’m very surprised that you seem not to understand that it makes no sense at all.
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Post by EspadaIII on Dec 20, 2021 13:05:30 GMT
I thought that the elipsis after MOL was a bit of a give away.
But unlike I suspect a few of you I have many friends who are very senior NHS employees at the sharp end, other friends who are multi-millionaire business people, and yet others like me who are professionals. We all believe the same thing. In principle, you can run a country like a business, if you understand that you do have to ensure that everyone is cared for.
The NHS is run for the benefit of its managers and unionised staff, not the patients nor the doctors or other clinical staff. It does not work efficiently and its outcomes are worse than the rest of western Europe. It needs reform; not necessarily to save money but to make it do the job it was set up to do. One of my friends is on her third Trust employer in five years, yet her role and job has not changed and for five weeks this year she had no boss and was not getting paid.
We pay out fortunes in social care and yet still do not get good value for money. Everything seems to be done on the cheap. There is no holistic thinking in UK government and there is no money tree to spend our way into a better society. The left-wing seem to be taking us into a society when anything is acceptable and if you don't agree with us, not only will we not listen to you, you're not allowed to say it... (JK Rowling, Prof. Kathleen Stock etc).
If you look at Biden now, you will see that he is keeping many of the Trump policies because he can see that they worked. If he had kept his mouth shut a little more, Trump would be in power now and benefitting the US. So just because you didn't like him doesn't mean he was all bad. Just like I didn't like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown but they did have some good points and it is thanks to Blair that we had the 12 weeek gap between Jab 1 and Jab 2 in the UK which made the immunisation process far more effeective than the US or Israel.
There is nothing wrong with being a Conservative; I would probably class myself as a liberal Conservative (or slightly to the right of New Labour). But there are times when there is a red line; Corbyn's legacy has not yet gone away. And until British Jews are treated in the same way that British Chinese are treated; i.e. not abused for the actions of a foreigh power over which they have no sway, then I will always be wary of the Left.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 20, 2021 13:32:05 GMT
If he had kept his mouth shut a little more, Trump would be in power now and benefitting the US. So just because you didn't like him doesn't mean he was all bad. He attempted a coup, in which people were killed, rather than accept the result of the election he lost. That makes him as close to all bad as makes no difference. Not ‘just like’ Brown or Blair at all. Not even a tiny, tiny bit. But unlike I suspect a few of you I have many friends who are very senior NHS employees at the sharp end, other friends who are multi-millionaire business people, and yet others like me who are professionals. We all believe the same thing. In principle, you can run a country like a business, if you understand that you do have to ensure that everyone is cared for. We all know people. What makes your anecdotal evidence any weightier than anyone else’s? Have any of your contacts got records in political office, from which they assert that government works just like medicine or property development? It simply doesn’t. A business has one simple objective: to make enough money to continue to exist. In doing that, it has also to maintain necessary standards in various areas that are typically defined for it in the wider public interest. And it operates within a market, whereas governments act to define markets, which is why government finance is nothing like the business or household finance model, whatever the likes of Iain Duncan Smith might tell you. No business or household could have quantitatively eased its way through the 2008 crisis, for example — nor even known where to begin. This is why I get impatient with the lazy assertion that politicians are ‘all the same’; it’s very far from the truth, because the good ones have the rare skill of making seemingly irreconcilable interests work together. No MBA teaches that.
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Post by dixinormus on Dec 20, 2021 20:37:59 GMT
Yes, but go too far the opposite way WdB and you have relentless interventionism, usually accompanied by borrowing and spending to unsustainable levels. How much did schemes like Eat Out to Help Out cost the country last year? The restaurants are still going bankrupt and the initiative didn’t slow the spread of Covid.
On the interventionist scale with Sweden at one end and Austria/Australia and NZ at the other, the government has done pretty well so far. Probably through apathy, insouciance and sheer luck I will accede!
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