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Post by commerdriver on Feb 14, 2019 13:23:16 GMT
"Can I choose my punishment in order to avoid prosecution in future? I didn't know that was a standard part of the justice system."
Not a standard part of the justice system but I would expect it to be common practice with elderly drivers where they are giving up driving and any damages to other cars / individuals will be dealt with by insurance.
"Do you reckon, if one of us had done this and then been seen driving without a seatbelt a couple of days later, that we'd avoid prosecution?"
probably not but if it was a 97 year old relative (not that any of my family has ever made it anything like that far) I would hope that it would not be pursued through courts etc.
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Post by commerdriver on Feb 14, 2019 13:25:41 GMT
What is the real value in prosecuting anyone of that age, especially when they have accepted the inevitable and given up their licence.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 13:29:43 GMT
Yeah, I guess you're both right. Shame that the old fella in question didn't have the good sense to give up sooner really. I can't imagine there was anyone willing to tell him to stop though. Perils of absolute privilege.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 14:03:26 GMT
Perhaps he should have given up earlier. It's probably quite difficult to give up at exactly the right moment, and who of us would be willing to give up too early just to be safe?
As for anybody being willing to tell him to stop, you don't need to be a Prince to have that level of absolute privilege. You wait until you need to tell your Mother it is time to stop. Then you'll meet real "absolute privilege", probably around the ear.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 14:13:21 GMT
If I thought she was dangerous, I'd call the Police in to have a word. I expect none of his children would do the same.
Whilst I concede the point about prosecution, I do think he showed true colours in driving without a seatbelt almost immediately (mere days) afterwards, and his forced attempt at contrition.
Hey ho.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 14:18:19 GMT
>>If I thought she was dangerous, I'd call the Police in to have a word. I expect none of his children would do the same.
I see no reason why his children would be less responsible than you or I.
And having been through this, though with a Grandparent, there isn't much the police can do until something actually happens. Assuming that medicals can be passed, then it's very difficult to force someone to stop. And it causes massive, massive resentment.
It's quite a horrible situation actually, I hope you never have to face it.
>>I do think he showed true colours in driving without a seatbelt almost immediately
True colours? Hardly. But very probably showing exactly why giving up his licence was the right thing to do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 14:36:05 GMT
I can be fairly certain his children didn't do anything to stop him driving, because he was driving. If a dangerous driver is reported to the Police, they'll follow up with the person in question and at least give strong advice. Can also keep an eye out for particular vehicles with ANPR. Obviously can't guarantee it's taken but one should do what one can do for the sake of others, regardless of "resentment".
No sense of being mistaken, he continued driving (replacement car immediately supplied by grovelling system with no regard to consequences), and compounded that by not wearing a seatbelt. That's fairly obvious "true colors". Arrogance. And deference to privilege putting others in continued danger. I'm failing to see much positive here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 14:53:26 GMT
"deference to privilege putting others in continued danger", what reactionary, over-emotional tripe.
This is pointless. You are quite clever enough to work out the possibilities if you weren't so completely lead by your emotional reaction to the Monarchy.
If you can't see it yourself, I doubt that me banging on about it will make any difference.
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Post by commerdriver on Feb 14, 2019 14:56:04 GMT
Al, what do you think your reaction will be if you get to age 90+ and your children are trying to get you to give up driving.
I hope I would be sensible enough to know when it is time but which of us really knows.
I have been there with my mother / father and great uncle and with my wife's uncle, we eventually found an excuse to stop them but it wasn't easy and I don't know that there are circumstances in which we would have called the police. I hope for your sake you never get that far with your family.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 0:40:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 8:36:27 GMT
Al, what do you think your reaction will be if you get to age 90+ and your children are trying to get you to give up driving. I hope I would be sensible enough to know when it is time but which of us really knows. I have been there with my mother / father and great uncle and with my wife's uncle, we eventually found an excuse to stop them but it wasn't easy and I don't know that there are circumstances in which we would have called the police. I hope for your sake you never get that far with your family. I hope to be sanguine and wise enough to know when good advice is being given in those circumstances. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 8:44:09 GMT
"deference to privilege putting others in continued danger", what reactionary, over-emotional tripe. This is pointless. You are quite clever enough to work out the possibilities if you weren't so completely lead by your emotional reaction to the Monarchy. If you can't see it yourself, I doubt that me banging on about it will make any difference. If you still haven't twigged that my objection to the Monarchy is based on principle and not emotion then you're right, it is pointless to discuss it with you. You seem determined to see something which doesn't exist. I sense a bit of projection to be frank. Do you think I'd have conceded the prosecution point quite so magnanimously if I were being over-emotional about this? You're right, you made a good point, I was wrong. This is how debate works, and accusations of emotions leading judgements can hardly be levelled at those prepared to see the other side and admit error.
I think that there was an element of deference to this individual when he was immediately provided with a replacement vehicle in the aftermath of this accident, and I believe there was a display of arrogance on his part by driving it on the public road immediately and without due regard to the law, i.e. without a seatbelt. This behaviour demonstrates a disregard for the consequences of his actions on others. I'd say the same of anyone doing similar. I'm struggling to see how anyone can see how those actions are acceptable, but I'm open to your arguments if you'd like to make any, because, of course, I'm quite aware of the fact that there may be a better argument than mine. If you can do it without playing the man, that would probably lead to better dialogue.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Feb 15, 2019 14:19:22 GMT
I'm surprised this discussion has rumbled on for so long. Each case is decided by the police / CPS on its merits, but I think it's normal not to prosecute where someone is apologetic and surrenders their licence. As said above, there's nothing to be gained.
It makes no difference who you are. The same thing happened to my father (a retired naval officer) towards the end of his life (aged 80). His car scraped the side of another, and he didn't notice, but was reported by the other driver. He realised that he had to give up driving, and wasn't prosecuted. This was back in 1986, but I don't think things have changed much in this respect.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 14:29:04 GMT
Yes. We've all agreed on that element now.
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