WDB
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Post by WDB on Jan 17, 2019 22:30:25 GMT
...and now we know what it takes to knock the constitutional crisis off the top of the BBC news
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Post by tyrednexited on Jan 17, 2019 22:44:59 GMT
...the same thing that knocked a Kia Karens off the A149.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 14:36:37 GMT
My dad aged 84... Probably only slightly better reflexes that the DofE. Lives 2,500 miles away. Do I worry? Oh Yes!
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jan 19, 2019 7:45:26 GMT
Dazzled by the sun, according to Phil himself.
Much bluster about older drivers being safer than young ones, ignoring that the young drivers who don’t kill themseves get better, whereas the over-nineties generally don’t.
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Post by Humph on Jan 19, 2019 9:17:07 GMT
Tangential musing ( who me? ) but I was chatting to my son yesterday, and we were reflecting that it's more than possible, that his will be the last generation who will learn to drive manual internal combustion cars.
Future generations may well learn to drive electric, or other alternatively powered ones, but even they will eventually be replaced by driverless vehicles.
Of his circle of friends, who are currently 18-20, less than half of them have a driving licence, and fewer still have their own cars. He says that many of them have no interest at all in learning to drive and are happy to use trains or Uber etc.
Speculating about the longer term, there seems to be a feeling that people in the future won't actually own or drive a personal vehicle, but instead be shuttled around by driverless pods accessed when required.
None of them have a motorcycle licence and have no desire to get one. Motorbikes seem to have shifted from being a practical, cheaper method of getting around for those on a budget, to a leisure activity for those who can afford to run them in addition to a car.
I totally get motorbikes if you live in a pleasant climate and/or if you need a method of getting through traffic congestion, or want to pop down to the beach in a holiday area, but as a daily form of transport in a country where it's cold and wet a lot of the time, I really don't see the attraction.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jan 19, 2019 14:10:58 GMT
Tangential musing ( who me? ) but I was chatting to my son yesterday, and we were reflecting that it's more than possible, that his will be the last generation who will learn to drive manual internal combustion cars. Pretty much certain, I’d say, at least in the developed world. Boy 1 (almost 18) has taken no steps towards learning to drive, and it’s of minimal concern to him that we have no vehicle he could usefully practise in. Roll forward ten years and there’ll be few new ICE cars — or none at all — and autonomous vehicles will no longer be scary near-fiction.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Jan 19, 2019 14:43:13 GMT
Two separate issues here I think.
I can certainly see the ICE being superseded by either electric or hydrogen fuel cell. Not sure which - may depend on how technology gets on with the remote charging that's needed for cars parked in the street - bearing in mind that urban dwellers benefit most from EVs.
I'm not so sure about how widespread autonomous cars will become. WDB knows much more about the necessary technology than I do, so I readily believe him (so that the present 0.01% chance of a Tesla hitting a police car becomes zero). But will we see a similar change in human attitudes? Currently the car is an expression of people's free will, and - even if they're wrong - people will see autonomous cars as some form of encroachmenmt on same.
There's also the issue of trust: it will help if neither Microsoft nor Apple have anything to do with the software, but I found it quite difficult to hand over to even a simple thing like the park-assist on my previous Volvo V60 - so much so that I didn't ask for it on the Q2.
OK - so I'm 70, but I try not to be a Luddite. I must ask my four children, aged 33-43, and see what they think.
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Post by Humph on Jan 19, 2019 14:45:22 GMT
My son is somewhere in between. He loves driving and having his own car, but he takes no interest in it other than as a form of transport. He's quite happy with his little Aygo and has no immediate ambitions to change it.
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Post by tyrednexited on Jan 19, 2019 15:30:02 GMT
As I've already posted on here, my lad inherited SWMBO's Fiesta a couple of years ago. He wouldn't now be without it, but uses it very sparingly. Having pinched one of my bikes, he cycles to work every day (hasn't missed once, whatever the weather). He was quite happy to come home in it at Christmas, but, though he demonstrates knowledge about the workings, has absolutely no mechanical interest in it at all, and I've no doubt it won't get changed until he's run it into the ground (or indeed, checked and serviced except when he brings it home). At his age, I was almost permanently in the state of driving or fixing a car. Two separate issues here I think. OK - so I'm 70, but I try not to be a Luddite. I must ask my four children, aged 33-43, and see what they think. I'm not *quite* at 70 yet, but coming long-term from a technical background neither do I think I'm a luddite. But, there is a generational difference. The generations following us grew up in a very different environment, and though we have had to adapt to change, they have had to adapt to a fast pace of change over a shorter period. That drives different behaviours and levels of acceptability. The differences in behaviour are noticeable across a wide range of life today - one of which is the way people learn. I always used to be told to RTFM when I wanted to know how to use or do something. Nowadays, people simply learn intuitively (and, incidentally, quite often not very well) by "playing". (You don't get much of a manual with a lot of consumer goods nowadays, and, whereas you could often get very detailed instructions via a CD or off the web, it is noticeable that this is becoming less common - the general approach being "suck it and see"). As far as autonomous motoring is concerned, frankly, the days of 'enjoyable' motoring, particularly in developed nations, are largely numbered. I think (many) consumers would thus settle for autonomous, but, IMO, though most of the technical issues are probably overcomeable in the short term, the issues of liability in the event of an accident will probably delay widespread introduction for some time. The first step is when significant use proves that autonomous cars have a much better accident rate than human-driven ones (but that's going to be chicken and egg), the second when the record of updating the existing in-use software is 100% successful. (Can you imagine the task being handed to Microsoft, and every car in a given set all having the same malfunction at the same time - underwriter's nightmare).
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Post by Humph on Jan 19, 2019 15:50:44 GMT
>>At his age, I was almost permanently in the state of driving or fixing a car...
I think that's the key thing really, we had to put effort into keeping our cars running or they wouldn't. Even not very modern ones are pretty reliable now. Couple that with loads more shiny interwebby things to play with now and you can see why cars aren't as fascinating ( irritating? ) as they once were.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 17:38:55 GMT
Chatting with my son the other day who drives the Punto it is clear that to him it is pure transport (albeit one he manages to damage with annoying regularity). No interest in maintenance, or fettling, or even upgrading. At his age I had swapped a whole dashboard out of a Cortina, changed a clutch lying on the ground and generally fooled around with Alfasuds and other exotic machinery.
OK, I had help but we were all frends together and from this we learnt "mechanical sympathy". That sort of thing will be long forgotten.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 18:47:28 GMT
>>and from this we learnt "mechanical sympathy"
It's not the loss of that skill which bothers me, it is the loss of basic problem solving skills.
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Post by dixinormus on Jan 19, 2019 19:45:13 GMT
In the 60’s & 70’s (and maybe the 80’s too) cars were cool. They epitomised “technology”, freedom, access to social interaction, a way to display individuality, etc.
Fast forward 30 years and all of those “benefits” are now obtained elsewhere. Largely via a handheld device and social media, apps like Snapgram etc. Other factors such as budget airlines and cheap travel also play a role somewhere too. The car isn’t fun or funky anymore, particularly now that there are so many of them clogging up our arteries.
Youngsters no longer want to know how things work either, they just expect them to at the touch of a button.
In 20-30 years’ time your GP or solicitor will be an admin person surfing Google for the answers!
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Post by Humph on Jan 19, 2019 21:47:08 GMT
I think you have it about right Dixi. Cars, as we know them anyway, will eventually become a leisure activity in the main. A bit like horses have already.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Jan 19, 2019 23:16:57 GMT
Ironic, isn't it - a new Focus is far more fun to drive than the Cortina that Espada took apart - yet fewer people enjoy driving it. Maybe young people need to aspire to something in order finally to enjoy it. No matter whether Dad buys you your first car or you get it on HP - it's there, it's available. Also there's just too much traffic for them to enjoy it properly.
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