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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 8:20:54 GMT
You'd probably have more risky moments in some parts of Turkey than Damascus at the moment. One of my bucket list drives is to go to St Petersburg via Norway, Sweden and Finland. Then on to Moscow and back home via Belarus, Poland, Germany etc.
Rob, I use google traffic every day, even within the first mile of my commute there's the Caversham bridge approach pinch point, so I check the colour of the A4074 to see if I need to do the back streets to get there. A couple of times, when in no hurry, I've taken the main road when it looks red to see if it's accurate, and yes, it is. My commute to Bracknell via Shinfield is fraught with traffic jam risk during school term time, so I always check it several times on my journey and it often re-routes me to avoid incidents. Invaluable.
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Post by Humph on Aug 31, 2018 8:30:23 GMT
I know most people do it, or something like it, and it's far from unusual, but the thought of driving the same route, at the same time, every day, for weeks, months, even years or decades on end, to sit at the same desk or whatever, next to the same people in the same building, taking lunch at the same time and returning along the same road...
I'd be in the funny farm.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 9:19:35 GMT
The thought of having sales targets and only being as good as the next thing you do fills me with horror. Been there, done, it, sod that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 9:21:02 GMT
I don't (and didn't) do either.
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Post by Humph on Aug 31, 2018 9:42:59 GMT
The thought of having sales targets and only being as good as the next thing you do fills me with horror. Been there, done, it, sod that. Yeah I know, it doesn't suit everyone, and I more than get that. But it is a way of life that keeps you on your toes, every day you have to try to be the best you can be, which is no bad thing in my opinion. I've sold things and trained others to do so all my working life, and I make no excuse for my somewhat plagiarised mantra that I repeat to myself every day, of "success occurs when preparation meets opportunity" If you know that what you've got is what the customer needs, and will benefit from buying, ( even if they don't know it yet ) and you can prove it to them rationally because you know your market and have researched their business, you're halfway there. Its not so scary really, and indeed can be quite rewarding if, in some small way, you help someone improve their business through your efforts. Crap days do happen though, and you just have to take that along with the good ones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 9:55:56 GMT
It wasn't the customers I was worried about as a salesman. I liked that bit. It was my management. They were clueless wonkers.
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Post by Humph on Aug 31, 2018 10:17:21 GMT
Often the case, so many people I have witnessed over the years have been promoted beyond their level of competence. A good X is not necessarily going to be a good manager of a team of Xs. You know that thing people are encouraged to put on their CV about being a "team player" ? The very best sales people are quite the opposite of that. They are self starting lone wolfs usually, impatient of what they see as interference from others. Odd critters mainly. ( yes I'm one ! )
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Aug 31, 2018 11:26:33 GMT
I think it really needs a bit of both qualities. I'd imagine your company is successful, Humph: you're a director but you still go out there selling, and your Mercedes has lots of goods in the back rather than being just a perk. Above all, unlike Al's 'wonkers' you don't expect others to do what you aren't prepared to do yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:34:22 GMT
I think Humph put his finger on it really. The type of person who is good at being a salesman is not likely to be the type of person who is good at managing salesman.
Not impossible of course, but unlikely.
As for 'team players', I don't think I've ever really known what that means. It's just one of those things people like to say and like to hear which everybody thinks is good. All very "Emperor's new clothes", I think. If it has a meaning or a real manifestation, then I suspect it's exactly the behaviour one does not want in a company.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:58:22 GMT
Really? Much as I am averse to business bullshit bingo and that, I'm working in a project building out a data centre at the moment and that really needs the various factions - network, infrastructure, hardware etc to consider eachother's needs and plans in order to get the best path to completion. That's teamwork, isn't it? If people work in individual tunnels on things like this you get in all sorts of trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 13:11:45 GMT
You want the person to be driven to be successful. If that is the case then he will do whatever is best to make projects he is involved in work.
Ideally you want tension between teams. Not hatred, but tension. Each one trying to be better than another team. Then within each team you also want tension; each member trying to be the best.
That drives performance up. It takes managing of course, you don't usually want open conflict.
Far better that than a team of people comfortable with where they are and all looking after each other and making sure everybody progresses together. That is called "lowest common denominator". Everybody performing at the capability of the least capable.
Consider the most successful football teams; full of people who are effective in teams but are absolutely not 2team players".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 13:17:05 GMT
Oh OK. Well don't worry there's plenty of tension here. A bit of shouting, swearing, walking out in huffs and slamming of doors, too.
No violence though. Yet.
I just wanna be nice, and have people be nice to me, and earn a reasonable enough living to keep me in red wine and Shed Seven merchandise. I'm probably not cut out for the corporate ladder, hence my tenure in middling admin type jobs at my advancing age.
I expect you wouldn't hire me in a million years, Otto. Hey ho.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 13:24:57 GMT
Which is why I say that I am not sure really what "team player" means, but that if it means anything it is probably something that nobody really wants.
I like people comfortable enough with each other that they can row and then get over it.
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Post by tyrednexited on Aug 31, 2018 14:13:57 GMT
... but the thought of driving the same route, at the same time, every day, for weeks, months, even years..... .... forgive a non-trivial question, then. It has intrigued me that you inevitably seem to end up at Llandegla for your w/e ride. I get the fact that it is convenient, and I myself tend to repeat favourite locations for my outdoor pursuits, but I do like to "ring the changes" and ensure some variety between the repeats. (That's why I'm cycling in the Ardennes today 😉) Don't you find repeat visits a bit boring?
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Post by tyrednexited on Aug 31, 2018 14:27:41 GMT
I'm working in a project building out a data centre at the moment Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Built a new data centre from scratch, equipped and commissioned it, then moved all the work from an existing data centre 30 miles away, re-established comms, etc, over a 60hr Easter w/e. Signed it off mid-Monday after a 50 hour shift, went home to bed and immediately got called to maternity as my son decided to make an appearance! Interesting weekend, really 🤔
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