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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 22:44:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 22:44:35 GMT
Why are you WDB so against Trump who has killed no one, nor had anyone arrested without legal cause and is doing the best for his country in a democratic manner.
Why do you not protest about Erdogan, or Putin or Xi, all of whom have arranged sublegal murders and arrests and in the former two men, have unraveled a form of democracy.
Trump may be a rather unpleasant man but the immature demonstrations with that stupid balloon have no basis.
You keep referring to Jerusalem. About five Presidents ago a law was passed in Congress to relocate the Embassy to the true caital of Israel. Each President postponed the action. Trump made it a campaign promise and stuck to it. An honourable man, as with his other campaign promises.
If you don't like his policies I understand, but unless you are a US citizen there is nothing you can do and it is pointless to demonstrate, unless those policies are against natural human rights, which they are not.
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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 23:51:31 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 23:51:31 GMT
Mmm, that might be a step too far. I'm pretty sure the bloke is a scumbag on a personal and a business level. He fires people that argue with him, his own opinion blows with the wind, and I think he has no particular integrity or morality.
It's reasonable to say that by and large he's done what he said he would, but so did Jack the Ripper and Osama Bin Laden.
I don't think it is pointless to demonstrate. Well, actually I do, but I don't think it is pointless to have demonstrations. All part of the freedom of thought, speech and assembly. We have too many restrictions as it is, we certainly don't need more.
As for Jerusalem, that would be a case in point; I am not sure that the Embassy should have been relocated, I am not sure that the agreement should have been made, but it is certainly true that the agreement was made and successive presidents ignored it. They should have got off the fence. Trump is an ass and an arse and he does the wrong things for the wrong reasons, but he does drag things out of the shadows.
So now the world is forced to deal with the US's agreement to move their Embassy. Which is as it should be, ignoring it did not make it better.
As an aside I think Israel's behaviour is pretty unacceptable most of the time. Two wrongs and all that.
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 15, 2018 8:12:02 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 15, 2018 8:12:02 GMT
Why are you WDB so against Trump who has killed no one, nor had anyone arrested without legal cause and is doing the best for his country in a democratic manner. Why do you not protest about Erdogan, or Putin or Xi, all of whom have arranged sublegal murders and arrests...? That is just what I’ve recently learned to call ‘whataboutery’: attempting to deflect unwanted attention by pointing to something else. I have no enthusiasm for any of the other leaders you mention, and as a member of and donor to Amnesty International, I contribute to protests about all of them. You keep referring to Jerusalem. About five Presidents ago a law was passed in Congress to relocate the Embassy to the true capital of Israel. Each President postponed the action. Trump made it a campaign promise and stuck to it. It was passed by a Republican Congress (remember Newt Gingrich?) in the Clinton era in 1995 but with, as the quotation from a Time article explains, the provision for it to be deferred indefinitely until it no longer threatened the security interests of the US. Clinton was sufficiently internationally-literate to see that acting against the express will of the UN would not help the Middle East or the US. Bush and Obama likewise. All that has changed since then is that Israel has a dogmatic right-wing government and Trump has the international literacy of a jelly baby. I don’t want us to fall out over this, but there’s nothing honourable about special favours for Israel in the face of international law and UN resolutions. Inevitably, you see this from your own point of view, but in a dangerous world, international consensus is precious (look at how hard Clinton and his team had to work on Northern Ireland) and jeopardizing it to please a crowd at home is not honourable, it’s irresponsible. From Time: That decision, which experts fear will spark unrest throughout the Arab world, represents the conclusion of a process that began in 1995, with the passage of that year’s Jerusalem Embassy Act. The law required the U.S. to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem by a set deadline, but conceded that the move could be put off for six months at a time as long as the President “determines and reports to Congress in advance that such suspension is necessary to protect the national security interests of the United States.”
The reasons why such a waiver might be needed are not much different today than they were in 1995.
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Trump
Jul 15, 2018 10:37:50 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 10:37:50 GMT
I know about 'whataboutery' and it is a figleaf to avoid facing up to the reality of ones own prejudices.
If these left wing demonstrators were really concerned about human rights and environmental welfare they would protest about such things as well. The fact that they choose the same targets all the time, even when there are easy opportunities to protest about the big issues, means that they are prejudiced about something about which they have an irrational dislike but cannot see it.
I have no objection to people protesting about Israeli government policies; but to tar all Jews and Israelis who may have voted for the opposition with the same brush is anti-Semitism; but that is what is happening in today's world. To protest about the presence of the Presient of the US is irrational. Protest against a policy by all means but he is the legal representative of the largest democracy in the world. To protest simply because he is who he is, is one stop closer to another Holocaust.
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Trump
Jul 15, 2018 10:39:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 10:39:26 GMT
Anyway - we aren't going to agree so lets stop it and continue our usual more pleasant conversations...
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 15, 2018 11:30:14 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 15, 2018 11:30:14 GMT
Anyway - we aren't going to agree so lets stop it and continue our usual more pleasant conversations... I’d like that too, but you don’t get to throw ‘antisemitism’ and ‘a new Holocaust’ at me and make that the final word. Nothing I’ve written merits that. ‘Left-wing protestors’: that’s the language of the Telegraph and the front page of yesterday’s Mail. They were people like you and me, drawn from many areas of society and politics. ‘Protesting because of who he is’: no, the protest is about what he does. He separates frightened immigrant children from their families, sexually assaults women, attempts to pervert the course of investigations into his own conduct, and - as I’ve already pointed out - is set on a foreign policy course that could undo 30 years of progress in international relations. You mentioned Clinton as a whatabout: sure, a man with a suspect private life, but one who understood and respected the importance of international consensus. Trump’s nativism is the antithesis of that, and it affects us all, whether we get to vote on him or not. To return to the main point here, Trump is not an honourable man; in fact it’s very hard to think of a single example of honourable behaviour in his public life or business record. And his wilful ignorance, nativism and pandering threaten the balance that has kept us all safe and prosperous in our post-war lives. Don’t let your enthusiasm for his Jerusalem move blind you to that.
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Trump
Jul 15, 2018 19:35:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 19:35:29 GMT
>>To return to the main point here, Trump is not an honourable man; in fact it’s very hard to think of a single example of honourable behaviour in his public life or business record. And his wilful ignorance, nativism and pandering threaten the balance that has kept us all safe and prosperous in our post-war lives.
Agree with virtually all of that, except I am not sure it's "wilful ignorance". I think the man is an ignorant pig and behaves that way just because that's how it is.
>>threaten the balance that has kept us all safe and prosperous in our post-war lives.
I think the balance had become more and more precarious. I think various things needed to be faced, addressed and new positions reached. I'd rather it wasn't done by an ignorant, bigoted, immoral bull in a china shop. But I don't see any reason to think anyone else was going to do it.
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Trump
Jul 16, 2018 22:27:41 GMT
Post by lygonos on Jul 16, 2018 22:27:41 GMT
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Trump
Jul 16, 2018 23:14:25 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 23:14:25 GMT
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 17, 2018 7:38:40 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 17, 2018 7:38:40 GMT
"you tiny fingered, Cheeto-faced, ferret wearing shitgibbon." This is the trouble with the Scots: so hard to read.
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 19, 2018 5:52:23 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 19, 2018 5:52:23 GMT
My head is spinning after this latest round of black-is-white-is-night-is-day-is-oh-look-a-squirrel. gu.com/p/92exn?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherThe man utters a blatant lie. When it is publicly pointed out him that it cannot be true, he tells another blatant lie to ‘explain’ that the first lie was unintentional. Like the Sun interview all over again. (Quite an achievement, incidentally, to provoke the Sun into indignantly defending its journalistic integrity.) Incidentally, on ‘wilful ignorance’, what I meant was that he places no importance on knowing or understanding the facts. He’s not alone in that, of course; the rise of anti-intellectualism in public life - “People have had enough of experts” - is largely responsible for the mess we’re in.
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Alanović
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Trump
Nov 7, 2018 8:46:33 GMT
Post by Alanović on Nov 7, 2018 8:46:33 GMT
Well that was a bit of a disappointment last night. A familiar feeling there. ;-)
I award America a B- for that performance. Showing some potential, but must try harder. Although Trump's main opposition party is about as effective and likeable as that which our own Glorious Leader faces in Labour and Corbyn.
A luta continua. So do what you must.
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Alanović
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Trump
Nov 9, 2018 16:07:33 GMT
Post by Alanović on Nov 9, 2018 16:07:33 GMT
Has he fired everyone on here? Where are you all, lads?
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Trump
Nov 9, 2018 19:30:08 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 19:30:08 GMT
Not me, I had vegetable curry, beer and wine with Lord Rennard and Nigel Evans yesterday, so I didn't have time to be in here. Two very pleasant gentlemen, I was very pleased at what excellent company they were. Nigel Evans turns out to be quite the curry fan.
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Trump
Nov 9, 2018 20:05:16 GMT
Post by Humph on Nov 9, 2018 20:05:16 GMT
I had to go to Surrey yesterday, but I'm back now and I'll be fine in a while...
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