WDB
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 10:15:43 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 13, 2018 10:15:43 GMT
Two of these flew low and loud over my house a few minutes ago Had to look up what they are. www.boeing.com/defense/v-22-osprey/I presume they’re in some way connected with the Trump visit, since they were heading north in the general direction of Buckinghamshire. Meanwhile, MrsB1 is in London to join the unwelcoming committee - not that the Narcissist-in-Chief is going any closer than he can help. And Mrs May continues to demean the country that didn’t quite elect her by sucking up to this appalling man.
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 11:05:00 GMT
Post by Alanović on Jul 13, 2018 11:05:00 GMT
I'd never heard of such a thing. Not sure I fancy the idea of being airborne when the engines/rotors start pivoting all over the shop. But then I hate flying full stop. Don't we solve the vertical take-off thing with the Harrier decades ago then?
Saw some bog standard military helicopters eastish bound above the A329(M) this morning, wondered what they were up to and the penny has now dropped.
Don't think I can add anything about Trump and May which the rest of you couldn't guess I'd think to be honest. Fucker shouldn't be here. He is not our friend, and the EU is not our enemy.
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Deleted
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 11:40:36 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 11:40:36 GMT
I hate to disagree, but wait until his term is over. Obama was feted by the west but failed miserably in any measure both internally and externally possibly with the one exception of Obamacare (and there are disputes about that).
He has forthright views, some of which I distance myself from, but I suspect his shoot from the hip comments are partly his way of doing deals rather than an underlying lack of understanding of the matter in question. Is Bill Clinton any better in terms of his attitude towards women - or is it worse - and yet we continue to consider him a good president.
He has not yet shown himself to be unfriendly; merely lacking the usual diplomacy we expect from people in his position. He may well succeed because of that.
The US military security presence would be around for any president so the disruption is expected and at least he is staying away from London and causing havoc there. And he does have a most interesting looking wife....
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 12:01:08 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 13, 2018 12:01:08 GMT
I find that frankly extraordinary, Esp. Trump’s idea of a ‘deal’ comes from his property-dealing background (in which, remember, he struggled to break even with his inherited fortune.) His view is that, if the other party is also happy with the deal, you haven’t negotiated hard enough. That attitude has little place in real-world business and none in international politics.
He is concerned only with pleasing a rather nasty, small-minded crowd at home, hence his willingness to destroy hard-won international consensus on Iran, the Pacific, Jerusalem and the WTO.
Comparisons with Obama and Clinton are miles wide of the mark. The man has no respect for the world or for the people he shares it with, so he deserves none from us.
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Deleted
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 13:04:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 13:04:10 GMT
But several tens of millions of Americans voted for him; not all of them stupid. Many friends of mine did simply because they were fed up with walked over by the 'establishment' that exists in Washington as much as it does in Westminster and Brussels.
So his position deserves respect as does his record of accomplishments when that is seen at the end of his term(s).
Why did no-one protest in a similar way when the Chinese came to town? Because they weren't allowed to. But for Trump its permited. Odd that?
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 13:24:20 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 13, 2018 13:24:20 GMT
Partly about expectations. We’ve got used to the responsible, internationally-minded America; even the bad presidents like Nixon and Bush Junior understood that they had a role to play and couldn’t just indulge themselves. After all that, Trump is a horrible shock, but there’s still time to show the minority of Americans who voted for him - some of whom do notice what happens beyond their own borders - that he’s an embarrassment to them and they urgently need to do better.
Fawning certainly won’t help. It’s all he’s ever had, and what sustains him.
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 14:05:53 GMT
Post by WDB on Jul 13, 2018 14:05:53 GMT
Somewhere near the tree at the top of this picture, apparently.
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Deleted
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 14:46:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 14:46:11 GMT
Trump appears to be an awful human being with no redeeming features that I can see. Largely incompetent, little vision, no refinement and no strategy. He has an undying faith in his own 'rightness' to the extent that u-turns within 60 seconds don't bother him.
However;
He is there because he appears to hate the things his supporters hate. Whether that is the Washington establishment, the IRS, the Media, Foreigners taking advantage of the US etc. etc. Years of being manipulated by various spin doctors, lying politicians and various other forms of deceit have pissed people off to the point where they voted for someone who appears not to be deceitful.
They won't beat him until they work out how to deal with that, and that is not simply saying that he is wrong. That is making the issues actually go away.
For the rest of us he is bringing stuff out into the light. Mostly not in a good way, but still into the light. Things that have been ignored, hidden, elephants in the room etc. etc. he is forcing people to look at.
I cannot imagine that anybody will ever look back upon Trump with fondness or respect, but there may be some things that get resolved or at least better known because of his bull-headed, simplistic and ridiculous approach.
And consider the other view; what issues of significance have any US politicians dealt with successfully in the last 50 years? I can't see him being any less successful
He's still a bloody awful man though.
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Trump
Jul 13, 2018 23:14:00 GMT
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Post by dixinormus on Jul 13, 2018 23:14:00 GMT
Well said Otto.
He's not likeable, and maybe that's the whole point.
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 7:04:18 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 14, 2018 7:04:18 GMT
I must be having a dim day. Are we now saying it’s OK to be publicly and repeatedly racist and untruthful because it ‘brings things into the light’?
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Deleted
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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 14:14:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 14:14:47 GMT
Yes, you are having a *very* dim day.
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 14:51:58 GMT
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Post by WDB on Jul 14, 2018 14:51:58 GMT
Well ... would you like to try again, this time making allowances for my dimness?
What have we had? A series of conspicuous gun murders, for which he refuses to acknowledge that easy access to guns might be partly responsible - and an attempt to smear Sadiq Khan over a comparatively small problem with knife crime . A violent demonstration by the racist right, which killed a counter-demonstrator, for which he refused to blame the racist right. Repeated pandering to the ignorant right on the Iran treaty, the Paris climate treaty, the embassy in Israel and the anti-Muslim travel ban. And the economically illiterate hacking at WTO freedoms in markets like steel and aviation.
These acts have one motive in common: to please his ugly, ignorant crowd at home, and damn the consequences for free trade, international cooperation, human rights and, indeed, peace and stability.
Which bits of that are in any way beneficial?
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Deleted
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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 16:51:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 16:51:15 GMT
Are you really saying that you do not understand the point I was making? [pointS, in fact].
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WDB
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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 18:32:26 GMT
Post by WDB on Jul 14, 2018 18:32:26 GMT
I think you're trying to say he's perversely useful because he makes us realize how valuable are the things he destroys and how abhorrent those he espouses. (You could make a similar case for the Taliban.) But I'm also pretty sure we'd still be better of in respect of all these things if he'd never been elected in the first place.
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Trump
Jul 14, 2018 19:00:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 19:00:30 GMT
>>I'm also pretty sure we'd still be better of in respect of all these things if he'd never been elected in the first place.
I don't know.
There are quite a lot of issues that the US has been brushing under the carpets and refusing to deal with for a long time;
e.g illegal immigration - it's a ridiculous state of affairs. As you know my belief is that there should be little or no immigration restrictions in the world, but to have them and then have your economy fundamentally depend on illegal immigrants is ridiculous. The US has horrendously strict immigration restrictions but essentially only enforces them against those who try to follow the rules. Flat out illegal immigration is unmanaged. Their overstayers number in the millions. Trump has raised this for all the wrong reasons because he is fundamentally an arse in so many ways, but that aside it does need dealing with and the last 10 Presidents have done naff all.
Obviously I'm hoping that as Trump kicks the bucket into the daylight his nasty approach forces the decent people to rise up and deal with the matter properly, God forbid that he gets to do it his way. Let us assume my optimism is well-founded. That would mean that a nasty issue got dealt with in a good way because as nasty man kicked the bucket out of the shadows.
That doesn't make Trump good in anyway, "I cannot imagine that anybody will ever look back upon Trump with fondness or respect, but there may be some things that get resolved or at least better known because of his bull-headed, simplistic and ridiculous approach".
I don't know how to phrase it any simpler, so over to you; you are able to grasp my point or you are not. Not much point in pursuing it further either way.
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