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Post by tyrednexited on May 13, 2017 20:31:38 GMT
...just picked one of these up today..... .....technology moves on, and having had the previous Kalkhoff for 5 years now (still performing well) this ticks a few more boxes, and in particular, gearing that better suits my riding style. Hopefully get a good day out on it tomorrow (though the weather is looking slightly dodgy). (Haibike Sduro Trekking 5.0)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 6:17:35 GMT
Looks comfortable. Bikes today all seem to require you to bend over like a Tour de France racer, rather than towards a more comfortable sit up a beg position.
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Post by tyrednexited on May 14, 2017 8:12:58 GMT
...the previous bike is one of these: ....which, in style, is closer to the more upright classic German/Dutch approach. I quite like a more upright riding position, and the new bike isn't as far away in that respect from the old one as it may look (especially with the handlebars at the highest position). The new bike's shape certainly looks more "MTB" than the old, but for their "hybrid" bikes, Haibike keep the basic shape, but vary the geometry quite a bit (it was a bit of a dilemma which size to buy, as you can't compare with their MTBs, and getting a sit on the two 'suspect' sizes was logistically difficult, due to stock levels and demand). The bike also comes in two versions, one with the Yamaha motor (which I've bought), and one with the Bosch. They have very different 'assist' characteristics, and the Yamaha (empirically) suits my riding style better (which is a good job, as it is around £1K cheaper! - largely, IMO, due to Bosch advertising and PR setting their prices.)
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Avant
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Post by Avant on May 14, 2017 22:58:33 GMT
Obviously as with most things, yer gets wot yer pays for - but your Haibike loks as if it costs at least twice as much as a lot of others. A friend has just got - and is pleased with - a FreeGo for about £1,100. If you have a moment, could you give me an idea of the main things you get for the extra money - or is it just quality? Thanks.
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Post by tyrednexited on May 15, 2017 9:19:20 GMT
....I think there are a few main areas that could describe the difference in summary form. - As you say, quality of mechanical components. As in many things, and as also applies with non-electric bikes, there is an improvement in quality as you move up the price scale. Better components generally both make the bike ride better, and tend to last somewhat longer. (Though, in my experience, in many things there is also an "elbow" in the price performance where the increase in price gives diminishing or virtually imperceptible gains - it's a matter of either personal judgement or empirical testing to find, and buy, at that point).
- The quality and integration of the motor and electronics. One fundamental thing is the "positioning" of the drive.
Cheaper bikes (and you will note this of the cheaper Freego models) generally have a motor installed in the hub of the front or rear wheel. This is fundamentally less sophisticated, less costly to install, requires little customisation of the other bike components (frame, gears, etc). but has one definite downside (power is not applied through the gears, so torque etc is restricted), and one perceived downside, in that it feels less natural to ride (In my experience, such a bike feels much less in control).
The more expensive bikes have the motor installed in the frame at the crank. Drive is then via chain (or belt) through whatever gearing is fitted at the rear. This applies the power/torque over a (much) greater range, and in a much more refined manner. The major "centre motor" manufacturers (Bosch, Panasonic, Kalkhoff, Yamaha, etc.) have invested heavily in wringing range and/or performance from both the mechanics and the electronics. Their installation, however, requires a "custom" frame tailored to the motor (and non-interchangeable with non-electric models) and possibly to gear change mechanisms to handle the increased transmitted power and torque. (You will note the more expensive Freego bikes have "centre drive" albeit of non-mainstream manufacture).
The quality of the programming, which defines just when and how power is applied during different riding conditions is key to the feel of the bike, and varies enormously.
- Battery Capacity: One of the single most expensive components on an e-bike is the battery. It obviously defines the potential range, but you also need to be careful of the specified life (number of recharges). A 400Wh battery on my new bike is £649 retail, the 500Wh with which it is fitted is £849 - so you can see where some of the cost goes. The major manufacturers have worked hard at increasing the number of recharge cycles, and you may get North of 1,000 recharges from one of theirs before a significant fall-off in performance. Capacity and life costs!
I certainly wouldn't knock (at least some of) the cheaper bikes. Much depends on what you are buying for, and it is certainly possible to find them value at the lower end of the usage stakes. Anything that (re-)awakens an interest in cycling and exercise is good news. What we wanted when we originally bought 5 years ago was long range (using the motorhome motorcaravan campervan off-grid, we really wanted two good rides of 30 miles each or so before we needed to recharge), and as normal a riding feel as we could get (being long-term, medium to long-distance bikers). I tried a number of cheaper and intermediate models (including a Freego and a Wisper bike) and neither felt either right or natural. The Wisper in particular seemed determined to "run away" with me. The Kalkhoffs we bought then were in a different league, feeling entirely natural to ride from the get-go (essentially just like a normal bike that was easier to pedal if you wanted it to be) and coincidentally offered the greatest range of any of the bike we looked at (having, at that time, the highest capacity battery). My wife's view of the ride was the same, and we bought two (different styles, same drive and battery) on the spot. 5 years on, and the technology has improved. My wife is still "wedded" to the Kalkhoff (and if we are to change that, it is likely to be for an updated model of the same). I can now buy a bike with similar range with some other facets I prefer, hence the change to the Haibike. We did a mixed ride of over 50 miles yesterday (incidentally, my son accompanied us on my older e-bike with a grin on his face all the way). Almost exactly 50% of the battery consumed (largely due to a strong head-wind all the way back). It's rides such as that that justify investing in a quality bike - the Freego would be fine (and probably better value) for pootling around on trips significantly less than that. .........and I can still walk today (despite the dodgy knees!)
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Avant
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Post by Avant on May 15, 2017 10:12:08 GMT
That's really helpful - thank you so much.
If I get one, it'll only be for light use, as an alternative to going for walks. A push-bike would normally be fine, but we live in a very hilly part of north Dorset, so it's more push than bike round here. But I do see the point about the positioning of the motor: just as with a car, it'll be important to try one out before buying.
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Post by Humph on May 15, 2017 16:59:32 GMT
Looks like fun T&E. I saw a guy up 't hill yesterday on an electrically assisted MTB. Great if the old legs are shot I guess.
"She" came off (quite spectacularly actually) yesterday. High sided a steep rocky bank, just carrying way too much speed to make the turn. She now has a small hole in her thigh where the handlebars tried to gain entry. Massive bruise there and several peripheral ones on her legs and back. Hirpling about like an old 'un today. They don't half go on about stuff don't they, women that is...
Bike is ok though thank goodness, a wipe out like that could've trashed it. Smashed her helmet though and good ones don't come cheap Y'ken...
😉
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Post by tyrednexited on May 15, 2017 17:02:40 GMT
Smashed her helmet though and good ones don't come cheap Y'ken... ....cheaper than a new head, though. I hate wearing a helmet, but wouldn't ride without one......
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Post by Humph on May 15, 2017 17:09:31 GMT
I wear one on the rough stuff, must confess I don't bother otherwise. Probably should I suppose.
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Post by bromptonaut on May 15, 2017 20:16:50 GMT
Probably should I suppose. Absolutely you shouldn't. Look at all those pictures of the Dutch etc. Street cycling is no more dangerous than street walking. Driving OTOH is well in serious head injury territory.
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Post by tyrednexited on May 16, 2017 13:04:47 GMT
Absolutely you shouldn't. Look at all those pictures of the Dutch etc. Street cycling is no more dangerous than street walking. ....it's quite interesting to see how the proponents/opponents of helmets pull the exact same statistics in different directions to support their points. (I'm not going to go into detail here, as there is far too much of it, and the arguments conflict, so you can pick your own from the web). I can get amused, however, by the way some of the debate goes; for instance, in arguing against compulsory helmets, I've seen it commonly proposed that (though the fact that helmets can ameliorate certain injuries isn't contested) the wearing of helmets discourages many new riders, and therefore inhibits the spread of the health and fitness benefits of cycling. Accordingly, helmets shouldn't be made compulsory, and existing riders shouldn't wear them, in order to encourage more people to take up the activity and benefit from it. Aye, right! Another anti-helmet stance is that wearing one can increase the risk of neck injury. Funnily enough, this argument isn't generally conflated with the concept that, if you hit something hard enough for the helmet to cause a neck injury, it is likely to have prevented you from getting a head injury. I have to say that much has to do with cycling infrastructure and national attitudes to cyclists. I have generally felt much safer and less likely to have a "spill" cycling, for example, in The Netherlands, Germany, Austria and all of Scandinavia than in the UK. I have a good friend who, with his wife, is an ardent and experienced cyclist. She cycles to work, in Sheffield, every day (and it's uphill on the way back ). A couple of years back she picked an argument with the tramlines and came off worse. The outcome was a good few cuts and bruises, a nasty wrist injury, and a well-dented helmet that undoubtedly saved her from a more serious outcome. I wear a helmet....
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WDB
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Post by WDB on May 16, 2017 22:30:42 GMT
So do I - although I play cricket without one.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 10, 2017 20:42:18 GMT
This is more like it. Seen and admired (as you may just be able to see in reflection) by three of us in Lyon yesterday. Attachments:
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