WDB
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Koblenz
Mar 6, 2017 12:36:26 GMT
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Post by WDB on Mar 6, 2017 12:36:26 GMT
Wondering about adding a German dimension to our car-based France trip this summer. My contacts on the Rhine (all from the Bonn-Cologne-Düsseldorf area) have spoken glowingly (geddit?) of the Rhein in Flamme festival, which reaches Koblenz this year on Saturday 12 August.
We typically take a gîte, then try to take in somewhere interesting on the way back to the Channel. So I'm wondering whether we might spend two weeks walking, cycling and even fishing somewhere hilly in eastern France - like the Vosges - and then rather than hammering back to Calais, take the long way via Koblenz and through Luxembourg and Belgium to the coast.
Any thoughts? Maybe a good spot to stay near Koblenz so we can leave the car and take the train into the city?
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Post by bromptonaut on Mar 6, 2017 13:22:25 GMT
Can certainly recommend the Vosges area. We were still campers at time and stayed in Oberbronn (on what was then a Flower Campings site). Nice area with lots to do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 13:36:22 GMT
Despite being a reasonably proficient French speaker, good enough to have done business in the language, I have no idea how to pronounce Vosges properly.
Never been, sure it's lovely, I did stay in the city of Troyes once, which I rather liked. Very olde worlde Frenchie style. Come to think of it, I struggle to think how to pronounce that one properly too. Find a restaurant serving Flammenkuchen, the lads will like those.
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WDB
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Koblenz
Mar 6, 2017 14:11:21 GMT
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Post by WDB on Mar 6, 2017 14:11:21 GMT
Troyes: imagine venting your spleen at a fellow driver in your best vernacular Redingensian. It's in Burgundy but we've stayed near there. Pretty and half-timbered, to judge from the brown signs on the motorway. Vosges: the s imperceptibly lengthens the o (might have been 'Vôges' elsewhere, perhaps) but otherwise disappears. My host family in Metz took me there for a big family party when I was 13. We ate at a huge table in the garden, looking out over the wooded hills. That's all I remember.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 14:51:21 GMT
The Vosges explanation was my most likely best approximation, thanks for that. Torn between "Troiz" and "Trrwah" for Troyes though. I expect neither are correct and your advice doesn't seem to favour either - remember I grew up in Windsor so don't have the Rreddin' accent. Doncha know.
I are most amused by the different reactions I get in Scotland if wearing a rugger or footer jersey - not a hair is turned in Embra, but in Glesga, well, it's a different story........although if its an Ayr United top in Glesga I have loads of escape time whilst my would be assailant picks himself up off the floor from laughing.
Lovely bit of France from what I've see (not extensive experience). Looking forward to my children trying out their Christmas mountain bikes in Vendee this summer.
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Post by Humph on Mar 6, 2017 14:56:14 GMT
Someone mention mountain bikes? Slaver, drool...details required !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 15:08:04 GMT
Oh nothing spectacular, although the boy's new bike is easily the best in our collection now. B'Twin Rockrider 340 (in dark blue) from Decathlon, with front sus. His first adult size bike (small frame). Way better than my £80 PoS from Halfords, the name of which I fail to recall entirely at the moment. The lass got a B'Twin bike too, child's one called Poply, she's delighted with it. They're both pretty good quality and value for money so far as I can tell, but the proof of them will be in the abuse they get in the summer. Even the wife's bike is better than mine, also a Decathlon B'Twin job of some name or other.
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Post by Humph on Mar 6, 2017 15:13:07 GMT
Good bikes. They'll enjoy them.
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WDB
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Koblenz
Mar 6, 2017 15:47:02 GMT
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Post by WDB on Mar 6, 2017 15:47:02 GMT
Twa'! Perhaps, on reflection, more Glaswegian than Redingensian.
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Post by tyrednexited on Mar 6, 2017 15:55:55 GMT
The Vosges is OK, though if you want a mix of things to do, the area between the hills and Colmar, (Actually in the Haut-Rhin, rather than Vosges department) is not a bad choice.
Towns like Kayserberg, Riquewihr, Turckheim and so on are attractive places to visit, and the cycling (though it can be a but uppy/downy) is good between the towns/villages via the vineyards (quiet enough to take kids on safely).
If you're into whites, the wines are spectacular (though not particularly cheap, even locally).
Colmar itself is supposed to be attractive (though I've never been) and Strasbourg and (for a little different adventure) Freiburg are OK for day visits.
As for the Rhine in Flames, if you're looking for a single overnight, then somewhere like Boppard, Sankt Goar, Bacharach, etc. would give you a taste of the Rhine Valley itself, and easy public transport to Koblenz (look for "party" or small-group tickets on the local transport, as, if they are available they save a lot of money).
The Rhine is just a little bit too noisy for me (trains and roads both sides), and if you were staying a little longer, I'd recommend going up the Mosel Valley, at least as far as Cochem, as it is less noisy (though still busy with tourists) and the local whites are very affordable (and good quality, especially Riesling). Cyling in the Mosel Valley is superb, and, as it is usually next to the river, very flat.
We find Germany considerably cheaper (all-in) than France, with eating and drinking out being a relative bargain.
If you are considering Germany, best think about pre-purchasing an emissions sticker (for which I can give you an appropriate, and cheap, online resource).
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WDB
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Koblenz
Mar 6, 2017 16:14:36 GMT
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Post by WDB on Mar 6, 2017 16:14:36 GMT
Thanks, T&E. It had just occurred to me to wonder about taking an eight-year-old diesel into a German city. Koblenz seems not to be on the Low Emissions list, but Freiburg is. Foreign vehicles, it seems, aren't required to have a particulate trap (the Bus is Euro 4 but has no trap) but pay a higher fee for the sticker than German cars.
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WDB
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Koblenz
Mar 6, 2017 17:29:35 GMT
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Post by WDB on Mar 6, 2017 17:29:35 GMT
Hey, another thing: Turckheim is where they make Staub. (That's 'Stobe', 'Vić, not 'Shtowb'.). Sven will know what I mean: enamelled cast iron pots and pans that make Le Creuset look like Fisher Price. I have, erm, four of their things already but there's always a use for one more - isn't there?
(I do make a bit of a habit of this. Last year we made a day trip to Thiers, where the beautiful elephant-badged Thiers-Issard knives are made. In 2013 we came home via the Normandy home of Mauviel copperware. And it's only just occurred to me that Cologne puts me a half-hour train ride away from Solingen, where the Güde company makes a bread knife with a blade 32cm long. Transporting it home through Eurostar security might be a challenge but one way or another, I'm going to have one.)
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Post by tyrednexited on Mar 6, 2017 17:44:04 GMT
Thanks, T&E. It had just occurred to me to wonder about taking an eight-year-old diesel into a German city. Koblenz seems not to be on the Low Emissions list, but Freiburg is. Foreign vehicles, it seems, aren't required to have a particulate trap (the Bus is Euro 4 but has no trap) but pay a higher fee for the sticker than German cars. Fees and arrangements are broadly (afaik) the same for German and foreign vehicles, except for the determination of the sticker you will get (German cars are exactly assessed from documentation, foreign cars depend on date of first registration). Foreign diesel cars registered on or after 1st Jan 2006 will get a green sticker (which, frankly, is the only one now worth having). If you want one in advance €6 on this site (the Berlin state authorities), and a scan of the V5C will get you one by return of post (valid throughout Germany ad infinitum). www.berlin.de/labo/mobilitaet/kfz-zulassung/feinstaubplakette/shop.86595.en.phpKoblenz, as you say, does not have an Umweltzone.
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Post by tyrednexited on Mar 6, 2017 22:19:18 GMT
German public transport tends to be both efficient and good value if you know what you are doing. The integrated transport system round Koblenz is described here: www.vrminfo.de/The zoning system, and the "group" ticketing arrangements make it cost-effective to stay out of Koblenz itself. A "minigruppenkarte" day-ticket covers up to 5 people on all public transport (train and bus) for the full day (though after 09:00 on weekdays) within the VRM area, and the cost appears to top-out at €22.10 after 5 zones. (that is €22.10 for the 5-person ticket, not each!) This means that, subject to timetables, you could stay well out of Koblenz, up or down the Rhein, or indeed, along the Mosel with minimal travel cost. (most of the locations I mentioned are in the area covered). Not a bad way of exploring some of the Rhein or Mosel, either. (It's also worth noting that some local accommodation will also issue a free travel pass for the same area for the length of your stay - depends on whether they are participating or not, but worth a check! We've taken advantage of similar offers in Germany, France and italy).
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WDB
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Koblenz
Mar 7, 2017 19:22:27 GMT
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Post by WDB on Mar 7, 2017 19:22:27 GMT
OK, plan is coming together. Found a nice-looking pizzapartment* in Bacharach for Saturday and Sunday night. Toyed with the idea of booking a boat trip from which to see the fireworks, but they all seem to charge a small fortune for a cheesy dinner and and even cheesier disco, and have the significant disadvantage that we can't get off when we've had enough. So I suspect we'll go in and out by train instead - although, annoyingly, Bacharach is one stop beyond the outer zone in which T&E's group ticket is valid. We can keep the boat option for Sunday; we can buy a day ticket to use the KD boats at will, which might be more fun in daylight.
Now to find a gîte for the first two weeks. And a way across the Channel.
* a short-stay self-catering apartment in which you don't really want to cook but which is perfect for the consumption of the takeaway wood-baked pizza that is readily available in every town in France. And, we must hope, Germany.
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