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Post by Alanović on Mar 16, 2017 11:44:58 GMT
OK, cool, aware of all the gotchas, catches and downsides. Zoe is too small, Fluence is the right size. I know about the battery lease, I'm factoring that in to running costs. At a purchase price of 2.5k, when I come to not want/need the car any more, I'd simply drive it to RCI and give it to them. If I ran one for 5 years, the saving of about £150 a month running costs is £9000 overall. Servicing would also be a saving. In that scenario, if my car has depreciated from £2.5k to £0, then so be it. All cars depreciate and 2.5k over 5 years is very, very low depreciation. Maybe in 5 years time, it'd still be worth £500/£1000, who knows.
I might just spruce up the Mazda and see if I can get a coupla grand for it privately.
On the subject of charging, it sounds like I'd need a wall charger for a Fluence. Any idea where I'd go to get one and how much it'd cost?
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Post by crankcase on Mar 16, 2017 12:00:10 GMT
Look into the OLEV scheme www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564537/evhs-guidance-for-customers-v-2.1.pdfI THINK this is valid for new owners of secondhand vehicles too. They pay 75%/£500 towards it. But allegedly some suppliers over inflate the price so you still end up paying them a few hundred - get quotes. Suppliers - mine was Chargemaster. Rolec are well known, Podpoint, or these people come highly recommended on forums as cheaper/more flexible/friendly. No personal experience. thephoenixworks.comOr some people buy their own and get a competent sparky themselves (although I think you might not get OLEV money if you do that, so do the sums).
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Post by Alanović on Mar 16, 2017 12:23:52 GMT
Ah, triffic. Loads of hoops to jump through, knotted in red tape. Remarkably unlike government to put so many obstacles in the way of green initiatives.
Sigh.
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Post by crankcase on Mar 16, 2017 12:38:12 GMT
Only if you want the grant. As I say, suppliers will probably charge you anything from about £750 to £1000, if they think they can get away with it. "Uprated wiring needed mate" "Only do five metres in that price mate". "Have to dig a trench mate". All that. Grant is £500 max, so you pay the rest.
Or skip the grant, pick a sparky, buy your charger for £150 or whatever, pay him and you might still end up better off.
And estate agents will tell you having a charger fitted is a selling point. So suggest you pick a 7kW one for future proofing. Sort out your socketed/unsocketed type ones from your type twos and their gender whilst you're at it of course...
Honestly, talk to phoenix or similar rather than the big suppliers, they understand all this stuff and will guide you through it.
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Post by Alanović on Mar 16, 2017 12:50:29 GMT
Cheers. If I ever get one, a charger can be installed on my internal garage wall, right next to the electricity meter, exactly where the mains cable rises. It would surely be the quickest, cheapest install possible. I had a new consumer unit about 5 years ago, which is also right there in the same spot. There is surely hardly any work to do.
I might drop these Phoenix geezers a tentative enquiry. Didn't used to own Rover, did they? ;-)
EDIT: I've sent them an initial enquiry.
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Post by crankcase on Mar 16, 2017 13:30:03 GMT
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Post by Humph on Mar 16, 2017 14:22:55 GMT
This isn't going to end well now is it?
But good luck anyway! 😬
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WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,354
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Post by WDB on Mar 16, 2017 16:56:33 GMT
OK, cool, aware of all the gotchas, catches and downsides. Zoe is too small, Fluence is the right size. I know about the battery lease, I'm factoring that in to running costs... If I've understood Cranks correctly, the battery ties you to a contract you can neither terminate nor transfer. You will be liable for £70 every month up to and including the one in which you die. Which, if you've calculated the total cost of owning a Fluence, can only mean that you know the number of your own days. Scary!
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Post by Humph on Mar 16, 2017 17:09:07 GMT
Tying yourself into a Renault until death do you part? Hmmmm...😰
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Post by lygonos on Mar 16, 2017 17:29:52 GMT
...suggest you pick a 7kW one for future proofing...
I have a 3-phase supply in my house so am tempted to go down the 3-phase 32A route (22kW).
The B250e can charge at 16A max, which means 3.6kW on single-phase (full charge ~8 hours), or 11kW on 3-phase (full charge 2.5-3 hours).
OLEV doesn't subsidise 3-phase home chargers but in Scotland there is an extra £500 available from the Energy Saving Trust (ie. £1000 total for standard charge points) which can hopefully be used against it.
Chargemaster suggest a 22kW home charger is ~£1200 before any subsidy.
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Avant
Full Member
Posts: 691
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Post by Avant on Mar 16, 2017 23:25:11 GMT
Wouldn't the main problem be be actually finding a Fluence? If they were withdrawn because they didn't sell well, there will be few of them around, which will be snapped up quickly if they're the good bargain you say they are.
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Post by crankcase on Mar 17, 2017 8:51:51 GMT
OK, cool, aware of all the gotchas, catches and downsides. Zoe is too small, Fluence is the right size. I know about the battery lease, I'm factoring that in to running costs... If I've understood Cranks correctly, the battery ties you to a contract you can neither terminate nor transfer. You will be liable for £70 every month up to and including the one in which you die. Which, if you've calculated the total cost of owning a Fluence, can only mean that you know the number of your own days. Scary! I think I meant to say that as I understand it, (because I don't have a Fluence but there's lots on interwebs that I frequent from those that do) once you sign a contract, you are committed to that. You can't terminate it early without penalty - you owe them the full amount. And at the end of it, your only three options are: Sign up for another or Successfully sell the car to someone who will take it over or The car ceases to be useful because, at YOUR expense, they want their battery back. You may not own it. Amalgating two letters from Renault quoted by a Fluence owner last year: "Dear ..... The primary period of hire on your battery hire agreement will come to an end on 23 March 2016. What happens next? The terms and conditions of your battery hire agreement do not allow you to purchase the battery. If you do not wish to continue to lease the battery from RCI, you will need to take the vehicle to an Electric Vehicle Specialised Dealership to have the battery removed- this will be at your expense. We will require the return of our asset, if you do not renew the Battery Hire Agreement."
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Post by Alanović on Mar 17, 2017 9:36:03 GMT
Wouldn't the main problem be be actually finding a Fluence? If they were withdrawn because they didn't sell well, there will be few of them around, which will be snapped up quickly if they're the good bargain you say they are. Yes there only seems to be 4 for sale at the moment nationwide, but they're not flying off the shelves and I'd only need one. Evidently they wouldn't work as well for everyone as they would for me, which is basically the situation for all pure EVs at the moment.
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Post by Alanović on Mar 17, 2017 9:37:13 GMT
OK, cool, aware of all the gotchas, catches and downsides. Zoe is too small, Fluence is the right size. I know about the battery lease, I'm factoring that in to running costs... If I've understood Cranks correctly, the battery ties you to a contract you can neither terminate nor transfer. You will be liable for £70 every month up to and including the one in which you die. Which, if you've calculated the total cost of owning a Fluence, can only mean that you know the number of your own days. Scary! Not really. I'd just give them their batteries back and scrap the rest of the car. Not a big deal on a car I buy for £2.5k and use for 5 years.
Most of the arguments against the Fluence can be made against any car (except the range argument, which is valid). They're all depreciating assets with associated running costs. If I were in the position of Lygonos for example, and looking at, what, £25k for an electric Merc, I'd be thinking a bit hard about maybe saving £22.5k and looking at a Fluence if the range situation would work for me. Of course, as I said, everyone's free to dispose of their money in any way they see fit and the Merc is probably a nicer car.
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Post by crankcase on Mar 17, 2017 9:53:08 GMT
I keep talking as if I don't think this is a good idea, A, and I really don't want to be Cassandric, but honestly, as best as I can ascertain, you can't (easily) just give them the batteries back. It's "take it to an approved dealer for battery removal, then ship the battery to France" and crucially that's all at your expense.
These things really are cheap for a reason.
Edit: I should add that if you DO go for it, I'll be delighted that we have another EV convert, and will be very interested to see how it works out. I don't think I can afford to stay in an EV after my PCP expires next January, so if this route DID work out well...
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