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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 13:38:05 GMT
I am rather perturbed about the huge demonstrations yesterday against Trump. They may well dislike his potential policies, but so far he has not done anything worthy of comment as President but more importantly, he has been democratically elected.
However the real issue is similar the demonstrations post the Cameron election in 2015 and after the Brexit vote. The ones who are complaining (and I voted to remain but I am not complaining), are most likely to be the ones who did not vote. I wonder...if all those demonstrating actually voted, would the outcome have been different? The youth vote less than the older people. The youth apparently say "...voting is a waste of time...". Well actually its not. With a close run election (and all three votes were close run), had the youth (who tend to be more left wing) voted, all three results may have gone a different way. No point complaining about the result of an election if you didn't vote.
If you can be bothered to get out of bed to fly to Washington (one young woman flew in from Hawaii just to demonstrate!), you can get out of bed to vote.
Edit - I note that the demonstrations got out of hand and much vandal damage was caused. How does that help?
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Post by Hofmeister on Jan 22, 2017 15:53:12 GMT
They are demonstrating against his sexism, his avowed disregard for green issues, his personal greed, his isolationism his perceived racism and the fact he was elected on a minority vote. So what have you got to be perturbed about?
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Post by iancapetown on Jan 22, 2017 16:11:46 GMT
What was the %age poll again? The voters knew the voting laws. Accept them. (Dare I say "so as it was in Brexit") Nobody moaned when Bill C got in to power on 43%. What amazes me, though, is that the %poll in both brexit AND the US election was so low
Maybe because voting is so easy and simple these days.... oH YES, HIT THE BUTTON TO VOTE OUT SOME x-Factor chap. Or Big Brother, or or or or...
Has voting become too easy - rather than getting off your backside and going to the polls?
(I stood in a queue in the rain for 4 hrs in 1994 for a democratic vote. Some stood for 16 hrs)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 16:20:23 GMT
Because, had they actually voted, he would not be president. You can't complain about the outcome of an election in which you were perfectly able to vote in, if you didn't actually vote. Mind you, every election is now won by a minority share so that view doesn't wash. If you had pure proportional representation, you would have an anarchy like Italy.
I'm not supporting him - his victory was similar to Brexit - the backwoodsmen who don't normally vote saw a cause that engaged them (however upsetting that cause may be) and voted for him. The lefties who also dont usually vote, didn't realise what was happening and failed to mobilise enough of themselves, so lost. Tough - don't complain.
For someone like me, who has close friends whose immediate families are Holocaust survivors, the thought of someone winning an election due to apathy of the opposition is worrying. I firmly believe that voting is not just a right its a requirement. By all means spoil your paper, but make a decision. If all those who don't vote, were required to vote, Trump would not be president even taking into account those who may have voted for him.
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Post by iancapetown on Jan 22, 2017 16:24:15 GMT
Because, had they actually voted, he would not be president. You can't complain about the outcome of an election in which you were perfectly able to vote in, if you didn't actually vote. Mind you, every election is now won by a minority share so that view doesn't wash. If you had pure proportional representation, you would have an anarchy like Italy. I'm not supporting him - his victory was similar to Brexit - the backwoodsmen who don't normally vote saw a cause that engaged them (however upsetting that cause may be) and voted for him. The lefties who also dont usually vote, didn't realise what was happening and failed to mobilise enough of themselves, so lost. Tough - don't complain. For someone like me, who has close friends whose immediate families are Holocaust survivors, the thought of someone winning an election due to apathy of the opposition is worrying. I firmly believe that voting is not just a right its a requirement. By all means spoil your paper, but make a decision. If all those who don't vote, were required to vote, Trump would not be president even taking into account those who may have voted for him. Amen. I could not vote in Brexit. Been here too long. However, one of my colleagues could. But didn't. Had the nerve to moan about it. I told her to STFU. She got most irate. Then I told her to STFU again.
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Post by Hofmeister on Jan 22, 2017 16:34:15 GMT
Because, had they actually voted, he would not be president. You can't complain about the outcome of an election in which you were perfectly able to vote in, if you didn't actually vote. Mind you, every election is now won by a minority share so that view doesn't wash. If you had pure proportional representation, you would have an anarchy like Italy. I'm not supporting him - his victory was similar to Brexit - the backwoodsmen who don't normally vote saw a cause that engaged them (however upsetting that cause may be) and voted for him. The lefties who also dont usually vote, didn't realise what was happening and failed to mobilise enough of themselves, so lost. Tough - don't complain. For someone like me, who has close friends whose immediate families are Holocaust survivors, the thought of someone winning an election due to apathy of the opposition is worrying. I firmly believe that voting is not just a right its a requirement. By all means spoil your paper, but make a decision. If all those who don't vote, were required to vote, Trump would not be president even taking into account those who may have voted for him. The Holocaust has nothing to do with apathy of voters. You should in fact be grateful that the right to protest is allowed and exercised.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 16:57:26 GMT
Of course I am. But make it a sensible demonstration. Rail against corrupt governments, unfair consequences of bad legislation or discrimination, but don't make yourself look stupid by complaining about an event you had the power to change but took no action.
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Post by Hofmeister on Jan 22, 2017 18:00:31 GMT
Rail against corrupt governments, unfair consequences of bad legislation or discrimination, Sums up Trump nicely.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Jan 23, 2017 7:21:06 GMT
A lot of assumptions in that, Esp - including the gross one that the demonstrators were non-voters. The ones I know about, who joined the march in Raleigh, NC, certainly did vote - for the candidate that got more votes than Trump. (And Bill Clinton's vote was affected by a popular third candidate, as you know, which wasn't the case this time.)
In any case, protest is a right in a free society - and a duty if you want to keep it that way. Nobody disputed the right of the Countryside Alliance to protest against the ban on hunting with dogs, although that was enacted by an elected government. Trump has to govern for the entire country, and the country is entitled to remind him of that.
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Post by Alanović on Jan 23, 2017 10:32:28 GMT
Dissent is one of the most important aspects of democracy.
Trump and brexit supporters seek to silence and denigrate dissenters. They can FRO. Apart from anything else, it's rank hypocrisy. For 40 years we've put up with their whinging about Europe. Nobody ever told them to 'suck it up', 'get over it, 'it's called DEMOCRACY', 'bedwetting whingers', etc etc. Did they all vote? Did they all vote for a party opposing EU membership? Did they arse as like. So again, they can FRO.
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