WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 28, 2024 8:39:15 GMT
It only applies to long trips in and into rural areas. Even then, it’s pretty trivial.
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Post by Humph on Aug 28, 2024 8:59:46 GMT
I couldn’t be bothered either in truth. Different folks different strokes etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2024 9:05:21 GMT
Luton airport for me later today. Last bigish job for the Civic. £5 drop off fee. Sigh.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 28, 2024 9:06:50 GMT
You may have mentioned that before, Humph
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Post by Humph on Aug 28, 2024 9:09:47 GMT
And indeed we may have heard your thoughts on the matter a couple of times. You do you as they say.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 28, 2024 10:05:36 GMT
…that would be 240 miles on 90% charge. I am pleased with that. That’s about 170Wh/km. I was imagining the Ioniq 5’s high-tech electrics and 2WD might put it light years ahead of the iX but there’s less in it than I thought. My last long trip gave me 217 miles from 93 percent of a battery that’s near enough the same size, so that’s about 190Wh/km — although there was a lot of 50mph trundling on the M1 that day, offset by some ‘making progress’ on the M40 later. But even 204Wh/km would have been 20 percent more than Esp’s 170, which is close to the 12:10 ratio of weight between the two. So it starts to look as if, driven well within itself, an EV uses energy roughly in proportion to its mass. Or maybe that’s modern EVs with efficient motors; not sure an Etron or an iPace would fit the same equation.
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Post by EspadaIII on Aug 28, 2024 10:27:17 GMT
It was a journey along mixed country roads, motorways and a little urban. I think I may have been a little pessimistic but today I have a drive from Bodmin to Manchester. I'm about to charge up and the journey is now 100% on motorway or similar.
Apparently there is a new Tesla Model 3 out which is long range 2WD version. Still don't want one as my trip this week has proven that my car works for me and more importantly, the charging network isn't as bad a people say it is.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Aug 28, 2024 10:41:55 GMT
It's the huge variations in range from the same vehicle that does not support the EV argument. How one car can go from 99.8Wh/km to 224.86Wh/km.
Those are actual figures for my EV. Mrs bpg has got it under 10kWh/100kms, I have managed a straight 10. I then took it on the autobahn where it averaged 22.5kWh/100kms, knocked 26% out of a 64kWh battery in 74kms.
No matter how hard I drive my diesel I can't get it to go from 60mpg to 26mpg. With a knackered O2 sensor driven on the autobahn it still managed 36mpg.
EVs might have maximum torque from zero revs, no gearbox, but they clearly have an operating window outside of which efficiency falls off a cliff. Be that temperature <10°C >25°C or road speed >60/65 mph.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 28, 2024 11:16:48 GMT
No matter how hard I drive my diesel I can't get it to go from 60mpg to 26mpg. No, because the differences are masked by the massive background inefficiency of any combustion engine, whereas an EV lays everything bare: drive faster, use more. But it’s not really relevant on short journeys and, as Esp’s data and mine suggest, it pretty much evens out over a long one. What we might call ‘design maturity’ has an influence too. 2010s EVs, like BPG’s Kia and my i3, were designed to work within the constraints imposed by small (by today's standards) batteries and to work best as short-distance runabouts, with high speeds and long distances some way down the list. (Given that, the e-Niro is a remarkably capable machine, years ahead of most makers’ efforts.) The i3 is more than capable on motorways, but its efficiency drops off noticeably above about 65mph. Bigger, newer EVs have moved the game on. My impression with the iX is that the efficiency cliff-edge, if it is one, is closer to 80 than 65, and I’d expect something similar in the Ioniq 5. I imagine that’s partly gearing, sacrificing red-hot (by EV standards) 0-62 acceleration for lower revs and less friction at cruising speed. Winter knocks everything down, of course, but still predictably. The demo iX managed 205Wh/km on a 10°C day in April and I’m guessing that may become 215 when it’s close to freezing. Hardly all over the chart and perfectly easy to live with and plan for.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Aug 28, 2024 12:48:02 GMT
Laid bare or not those variances are what people see and make a decision based on.
The KIA I have was the start of the current generation bigger batteries, connected vehicles. It was the biggest battery available on a mainstream vehicle in 2020. The SK3 design was launched in 2019. It is about to be replaced with the EV3 which will show how much the motor efficiency has moved on from 356v 64kWh 150kW @ 3,800-8,000 rpm 395Nm @ 3,600rpm (showing in electric vehicles electronic management of torque is required 100% not available from 0 rpm, that's for theoretical physicists).
I'm not convinced the game will have moved on so dramatically, the eSoul is already a very efficient vehicle operating within its envelope. How the switch to RWD affects it will make an interesting comparison.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Aug 28, 2024 13:40:45 GMT
Laid bare or not those variances are what people see and make a decision based on.. Not sure that’s true. People typically look at the WLTP headline, ask (if they do any critical thinking at all) what that translates to in real-world use, and use that to decide. Much the same applies in fossil world: Humph ’s famously economical diesel might consume 5 litres (190 MJ) per 100km ‘on a run’ but struggle to better 18 litres (684 MJ) on the mean, traffic-choked streets of Stoke on a December morning. That’s a bigger proportional swing than the electric Kia — and, of course, even at its worst, the EV (81 MJ) is consuming less than half the energy of the diesel at its best. If there’s a type to be avoided because it fails to deliver its promises of efficiency, it’s the combustion engine.
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Post by Humph on Aug 28, 2024 14:14:08 GMT
Fortunately, I can think of no pressing reasons to be driving around Stoke on any rain soaked mornings. Even dry ones for that matter.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Aug 28, 2024 14:22:14 GMT
Not sure that’s true. People typically look at the WLTP headline, ask (if they do any critical thinking at all) what that translates to in real-world use, and use that to decide. Much the same applies in fossil world: Humph ’s famously economical diesel might consume 5 litres (190 MJ) per 100km ‘on a run’ but struggle to better 18 litres (684 MJ) on the mean, traffic-choked streets of Stoke on a December morning. That’s a bigger proportional swing than the electric Kia — and, of course, even at its worst, the EV (81 MJ) is consuming less than half the energy of the diesel at its best. If there’s a type to be avoided because it fails to deliver its promises of efficiency, it’s the combustion engine. There's typically a 15% drop in efficiency with internal combustion from 25°C to -6°C rising to 24% for short journeys of 3 or 4 miles. EV is typically 39% with a heat pump. If Humph is getting 18l/100kms he really should look at getting that hole in the fuel tank looked at. Edit: looked at the EV3 specification sheet, looks like it will initially be offered with the same 150kW motor 0-100kph in mid 7 seconds. The range boost coming from increasing the battery capacity from 64kWh to 81kWh. It looks like the efficiency of motors has plateaued for now.
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Post by EspadaIII on Aug 28, 2024 14:49:41 GMT
Yes, that has been my view. Apart from a bigger battery and improved aerodynamics, I don't think any car is better than the best cars in 2021/22.
I know that I5 can do better if it had a more slippery body and the I6 and EV6 prove that.
Certainly, warmer temperatures improve efficiency as today I am getting more range at motorway speeds from 90% charge, than I get in winter at 100%.
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Post by Humph on Aug 28, 2024 14:52:24 GMT
In old money, mine does 43-45 mpg round the doors and 52-55 mpg on a long run. Done better on occasion and indeed worse sometimes when bikes are aloft and when pressing on. But not by much in either direction. I try not to overthink it.
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