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Sonos
Sept 28, 2016 9:23:16 GMT
Post by crankcase on Sept 28, 2016 9:23:16 GMT
Faintly intrigued by the idea of music in every sensible room, I wandered into John Lewis the other day and they had some Sonos kit. It looks nice, but it also looks like some hundreds gets you basically a wifi speaker, in mono. Some more hundreds gets you two if you actually want stereo (is that right?).
Anyway, they ALSO had what looks to be similar stuff from Samsung, LG et al, but sometimes at considerably lower prices.
The Sonos website doesn't seem to tell me what makes theirs special - WDB, you have this stuff. Why would I plump for Sonos and not some other cheapy thing at less money, or indeed a Bose system or something at more? If I were going to do this it would only be Spotify going through it, not my own audio kit.
What's the Sonos USP?
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Sonos
Sept 28, 2016 9:47:02 GMT
Post by Hofmeister on Sept 28, 2016 9:47:02 GMT
I'd get the damp sorted first.
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WDB
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Sonos
Sept 28, 2016 10:28:19 GMT
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Post by WDB on Sept 28, 2016 10:28:19 GMT
Most of the competitor systems were not available two years ago when I went for Sonos, so I can't make categorical statements about them. But Sonos manages to be both delightfully easy to set up and use, and to sound - for the £300 it costs to equip a typical room - really very good.
One impressive aspect of Sonos is the way they keep the system fresh through software updates. When it first appeared in 2005 it was all about playing files stored in computers in the same house. Since then it's developed to accommodate NAS devices, Internet radio and - especially - paid, lossless streaming services, all without rendering any of the original hardware obsolete. My Play:1s can now tune themselves to the specific acoustics of the room and their position in it, all done in software with a smartphone controller. Now we're getting integration with voice control devices like Echo, again with only a change of controller, not in the players themselves.
Similarly, today's system has used the increasing power and capacity of wireless networks to do away with the old requirement for a wired connection. You can still use one if it suits your home - it does mine - but all-wireless works in most cases if your router has the horsepower.
One gripe with Sonos is that there is no native integration of the BBC iPlayer Radio, but recently the access through TuneIn to BBC on-demand content has got noticeably better, so I can call up this week's News Quiz, for example, without having to resort to my old lash up of a Bluetooth adaptor feeding the line-in port of my Connect.
Some bemoan the lack of Bluetooth input, but Bluetooth is rubbish for music as it relies on the phone as the streaming device. I have Bluetooth speakers, of course, and they're fine in a hotel room or other small space where you're confined to one room. But Sonos puts all the streaming guts in the players themselves, so the phone is only a selector and controller, which works far better.
The only Sonos devices I have direct experience of are the Play:1, the Connect, and the Play:1 stereo pair, which I've listed separately because it lifts a compact speaker on to another plane of performance. I have a single 1 in the kitchen, where it copes fine, even with Wagner and the competing noises of cooker and extractor. But the pair in the bedroom is more than twice as good; I use the kitchen 1 as entertainment while I'm working, but I actually sit down to listen to the bedroom pair. The Connect, Meridian DAC, big-arse amplifier and speakers downstairs sound bigger and better, but they cost a total of £4,000 or more, so they ought to. For £300, plus the price of a Deezer Elite subscription, a Play:1 pair is a bargain.
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Sonos
Sept 28, 2016 15:07:51 GMT
Post by crankcase on Sept 28, 2016 15:07:51 GMT
Thanks W, that clarifies where they are coming from. Encouraging and interesting enough that I think I might take it to the next stage and have a little prod about further with varying kit.
In the good old days one could go into a record shop, and after you had asked for a needle for your gramophone they might allow you into the acoustic room where you could blind test some kit for quality that appealed to you. We did that once, perhaps twenty five years ago, can't quite recall, and we asked them to play three bits of kit at low, mid and top price range, without telling us which was which of course. We both easily picked the same one which turned out to be the cheapest. I think from memory it might have been a Cambridge Audio amp, probably an alpha, and maybe some Wharfedales and a Marantz CD player. Oh yes, it was. I'm still using them (actually I've updated the Marantz to another, but that's another dull story.)
They were very good about it.
None of those places are left near me, so it's hard to get much sensible advice.
As for you, zero, if you're going to go around spouting common sense and then wave tempting paper plane nonsenses about we shall no longer be on nodding terms. Damp indeed.
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WDB
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Sonos
Sept 28, 2016 15:58:17 GMT
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Post by WDB on Sept 28, 2016 15:58:17 GMT
Ah. I've had the opposite experience in hifi shops. In 1991 I took my modest budget to a shop to buy a turntable. Target was a Linn Axis, which sold new for about £400. Nice enough, I thought in the dem room. But before I could buy one, the hifi enabler said, "We've also got this one, that one of our staff has had at home for a couple of years. A new one costs the GDP of Wales but you can have it for £800."
'This one' turned out to be an LP12, of great fame and some revisionism, mainly from people who can't afford them. Even through fairly simple ancillaries, it blew the Axis and everything else I'd heard so far into the weeds there was no point even looking for them. I duly bought it, still have it, and spent the next 15 years gradually acquiring other components that were worthy of it.
This has usually involved listening to in-budget candidate items, finding them unsatisfactory, then hearing something much more expensive and deciding, like Wayne, that one day it will be mine. This has not been as financially ruinous as you might imagine, since I've upgraded each item from make-do to yeah-baby in one big step, not multiple small ones. The Dynaudio speakers were too much, but the stands improved my old pair so I bought them and added the Dynaudios a year later when the Committee gave its approval. I waited two years after falling for the Musical Fidelity A5 amp before a tax refund coincided with finding a two-year-old one at half the new price. And I bought the brilliant Something Solid XR equipment rack with a bequest from a deceased uncle.
Expensive, yes, but kept and enjoyed over many years, and probably only £6,000 in total over all that time. My Vauxhall Astra cost me much more than that and gave me very little in return.
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Deleted
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Sonos
Sept 28, 2016 19:03:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2016 19:03:45 GMT
Ah brings back memories of Mission amps, 70 II speakers, Philips CD150, Akai Cassette and Rotel tuner. Then upgraded the speakers to Allinsons from the USA which were fantastic items, chosen after a demo in the hifi shop from several pairs across a range of budgets.
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Deleted
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Sonos
Sept 28, 2016 19:18:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2016 19:18:51 GMT
You mention a Cambridge amp. Which triggered a thought. I used to go to Richer Sounds in Cambridge. And Oxford for that matter. IIRC Richer Sounds still has a demo room. Whether or not they sell the kit you want I couldn't say - but my level of audio equipment is somewhat behind you and WDB.
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Sonos
Sept 29, 2016 8:20:54 GMT
Post by Hofmeister on Sept 29, 2016 8:20:54 GMT
As for you, zero, if you're going to go around spouting common sense and then wave tempting paper plane nonsenses about we shall no longer be on nodding terms. Damp indeed. From where else would you get practical, sound, sensible advice, albeit with a cheap, fun, well earned recreation break?
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Sonos
Sept 29, 2016 9:15:13 GMT
Post by crankcase on Sept 29, 2016 9:15:13 GMT
I hate it when you're right.
Mostly.
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Sonos
Sept 29, 2016 9:25:33 GMT
Post by crankcase on Sept 29, 2016 9:25:33 GMT
You mention a Cambridge amp. Which triggered a thought. I used to go to Richer Sounds in Cambridge. And Oxford for that matter. IIRC Richer Sounds still has a demo room. Whether or not they sell the kit you want I couldn't say - but my level of audio equipment is somewhat behind you and WDB. Ah, Richer Sounds! Used to walk up there of a lunchtime for a peer, but never actually bought anything significant in there. It's still there though. I might wander up there again actually now you've made me think of it, for nostalgia. The kit I have is very low-end compared to WDB, but it's adequate for me. My wallet and I fear the upgrade treadmill. When I bought the Marantz CD, it was the knees of the very bee at that price range. A few years later they brought out a "K.I Signature Edition", which had a lot of puff about it, but reviews said it was noticeably better. I forgot all about it until a few months ago, when looking the local British Heart, where they have lots of old audio kit, they had just such a beast. It was £80. BH is a great place if you want retro kit, or need an emergency VHS/DVD player or DVD recorder or whatever for a tenner or something, incidentally. At that price I went for the signature Marantz, especially as it looks brand new and even came in the original box with manual. The only thing missing was the remote, but the existing one I had worked. It does indeed sound noticeably "better" - warmer, deeper, more rounded. Very pleased with it for £80.
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WDB
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Sonos
Sept 29, 2016 10:54:15 GMT
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Post by WDB on Sept 29, 2016 10:54:15 GMT
If you want retro (and doesn't everybody these days?) I've just put a fresh pair of lithium AAs in the Casio fx-39 I discovered in the elsewherementioned sweep of the parental home. This was the calculator I bought in December 1979 to use at school, and it got me right through to A-levels. It was superior to the cheaper fx-31 - although I never worked out how - but gave away two digits to the out-of-budget fx-120 that some of my contemporaries could afford. Other people had newer models with LCD displays that didn't get through batteries so fast, and were quicker from 0 to 69! too. But my 39 glowed greenly on for six years - until I got to university and decided I could afford ten digits after all.
And the 39 still works! My student fx-115m lives in my desk at work, but is solar powered and gets a little flaky if the light isn't bright enough. So I think I'll take the 39 to join it, if only for the green display and the delightful spring of the keys. A person can have too many touch screens!
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Sonos
Sept 29, 2016 16:26:00 GMT
Post by bromptonaut on Sept 29, 2016 16:26:00 GMT
Calculators, at least the consumer type, don't really seem to have advanced after the move from LED to LCD. And they go on working for ever. I have a LCD Sharp elsi-mate E200 from 1978 which will do anything a modem calculator will albeit needing a 9v PP3 rather than button cells or solar. Also a couple of TI solar powered from 1984/5 that kick around house for general use.
My preferred desktop at home is a Casio MR20 from May 1989. Bought it for work where I needed 12 digits. The amount of hoop jumping to get such a piece of kit through 'official' suppliers made £20 of my own cash for something I could take with me when I moved on a no brainer.
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Rob
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Sonos
Sept 29, 2016 16:52:10 GMT
Post by Rob on Sept 29, 2016 16:52:10 GMT
When doing my A-Levels I had a programmable Casio (FX-4000P) which meant checking some answers could be done with a programme. I'm thinking of crude estimations for integration. No use for exams because not allowed. But a well constructed calculator.
It did conditional jumps etc. Later programmable calculators ditched that sort of thing.
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WDB
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Sept 29, 2016 20:06:14 GMT
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Post by WDB on Sept 29, 2016 20:06:14 GMT
I've remembered! The fx-39 was worth the extra £3 (or whatever) over the fx-31 because it could do fractions. Real, vulgar, two-thirds times five-seventeenths fractions. And, of course, it still can, and present the answer as another fraction (ten fifty-oneths, of course). Even Excel 2016 struggles to do that.
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Sept 29, 2016 20:10:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 20:10:37 GMT
Maybe Excel struggles, but my phone doesn't; fractions, linear interpolation and exponent calculation all at my fingertips.
And adding and taking-away.
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