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Post by Hofmeister on Jul 4, 2016 21:29:21 GMT
Inevitably (hopefully) there will be a lot of noise and chatter in here about the UK voting to leave the EU. Here is my contribution. What happens Next? Does parliament need to vote to enact clause 50?, will they? When? I suspect that the next Tory PM wont have the balls to press the button, and will either engineer a parliament vote to put the terms to the British public (if they can get any out of the EU before enacting the clause) or it will go to a General Election, with Brexit in or out as a manifesto pledge.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 18:05:28 GMT
Why does anybody think that a second referendum would solve anything?
It'll still be a marginal decision in one direction or the other. Our problem is an electorate that doesn't understand the issues and a political body which cannot explain it to them. Or tell the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 21:12:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 23:34:19 GMT
I think it was a big mistake if Europe stays firm with the EU. But if others leave or their economy collapses (Greece, Italy, France) then it might just be the best decision we ever made as a nation other than to fight Hitler.
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Post by Hofmeister on Jul 10, 2016 17:51:47 GMT
Clearly the EU has to change, its people want change. Trouble is out of it we have no say in what it will look like. So far all we have achieved is a huge internal constitutional crisis, A global economic shock, and it appears, from their behavior, given legitimacy and cause to our home grown rabid racists. I'm really not happy or proud being British at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 19:09:31 GMT
You are right, but we were the only country likely to 'exit' first, and if that precipitates change it may well be that May stops us leaving. Can't help thinking that Jean Claude Junker is a tinpot dictator whose wide open mouth has caused this crisis. However I voted in with a heavy heart.
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Post by WDB on Jul 11, 2016 10:19:33 GMT
I'm really not happy or proud being British at the moment. I feel the same, Z. The anti-EU vote was just that: anti. It was either people who feel threatened by immigration and will follow any pied piper who offers to take it away, or people like a few I met when campaigning who have swallowed all the gravy-train, cold-dead-hand, straight banana nonsense and never bothered to check whether it was (a) true or (b) relevant to the benefit the UK gets from its membership. We have our press and our generally poor standards of critical thinking to thank for that. Trouble is, now they've achieved what they wanted and Taken Back Control, it becomes clear that there was never any kind of plan for what to do with it. All they ever wanted was to be an outraged minority, raging at the supposed iniquities of the EU. We'd be doing them a huge favour by setting the whole thing aside as the shambles it was and asking Mrs Merkel nicely if we can come back to the table. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 12:01:52 GMT
Agreed. I would want there to be some fundamental changes to the EU, (and we are really powerful enough economically to do it if we had the will), but we are far better off being in the tent pissing out than being out of the tent pissing in.
A good proportion of my middle class, professional friends (and mainly business owners as well) voted out, which I found astonishing. None could give a good reason for doing so, whereas another friend in the motor trade was eloquent about the need to stay in for clear economic reasons 'I'm holding my nose and voting in' were his words.
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Post by Hofmeister on Jul 11, 2016 15:56:26 GMT
I'm really not happy or proud being British at the moment. I feel the same, Z. The anti-EU vote was just that: anti. It was either people who feel threatened by immigration and will follow any pied piper who offers to take it away, or people like a few I met when campaigning who have swallowed all the gravy-train, cold-dead-hand, straight banana nonsense and never bothered to check whether it was (a) true or (b) relevant to the benefit the UK gets from its membership. We have our press and our generally poor standards of critical thinking to thank for that. Trouble is, now they've achieved what they wanted and Taken Back Control, it becomes clear that there was never any kind of plan for what to do with it. All they ever wanted was to be an outraged minority, raging at the supposed iniquities of the EU. We'd be doing them a huge favour by setting the whole thing aside as the shambles it was and asking Mrs Merkel nicely if we can come back to the table. The trouble is they haven't taken back control, and they never will. Certainly not the control they thought they would be getting. I can understand the have-nots throwing a strop, and they will be mightily browned off when they realise they will be "Have less". As soon as someone says "Its a price worth paying" I want to slap them, because you know they expect someone else to be paying it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 16:36:46 GMT
I do not wish to be Out of the EU. But if I am quite honest the fact that "Out" got the most votes is not what upsets me.
What mortifies me, and embarasses me, and I am ashamed of, especially living surrounded by foreigners, is the type of person that voted out and the reasons they did so.
Obviously some rational, reasonable and ordinary people voted out. Fair enough, that's the point of voting. They don't annoy me. I don't agree with them, but that's life. And who knows, they might be right. I don't think they are, but they might be.
But its the bigoted, ignorant, smug scumbags that make my toes curl. They are the ones that make me embarrassed about my country's behaviour. They have no understanding of the issues, no interest in what is right or wrong, they are simply driven by this jingoistic need for an empire that never existed.
And you know why? Because they were secure int heir bigotry and nobody cared. But then the EU came along and shone a light, and made it wrong to be sexist, racist, prejudiced, isolationist, whatever-ist and so they hate it. The bigots want the nasty foreigners to go away so that there is nobody to highlight their own prejudices.
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Post by WDB on Jul 12, 2016 8:08:23 GMT
As soon as someone says "Its a price worth paying" I want to slap them, because you know they expect someone else to be paying it. Yes, exactly. There's a dim ex-policeman on the other site who insists that his protected pension puts him in a morally superior position as he can make a clear-eyed choice without damaging his own interests. Or something. He's really not worth arguing with. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2016 20:46:52 GMT
On the subject of Brexit does anybody personally know anybody that fulfills *all* the following criteria; - Understands business at a reasonably senior level
- Understands international trade, import or export
- Understands general economics and supply & demand
- Is neither a fool nor a bigot
- Understands the EU
- Voted to leave the EU
Everybody I know who voted out is one of a plank, an ostrich or a bigot. |
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Post by Hofmeister on Jul 17, 2016 21:19:00 GMT
There are some who meet all the criteria, but they voted out for reasons of personal gain, monetary, influence or power.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 15:39:21 GMT
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Post by Hofmeister on Jul 19, 2016 18:57:11 GMT
Every time the fellow appears on the tele, runs his hand through his hair, gives that silly lopsided grin and starts to speak like he is at a college luncheon, i think "what a tit"
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