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Post by Humph on Sept 12, 2024 10:33:31 GMT
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Post by EspadaIII on Sept 12, 2024 10:40:43 GMT
Certainly hydrogen as a fuel is far more efficient in terms of miles per kg than EVs and time to 'refill'. No home filling but visiting a gas station is no harder that visiting a petrol (or 'gas') station. And if hydrogen supplies our boilers, maybe we can home fill?
It needed better worldwide government input earlier to become as 'mainstream' as EVs are now. EVs may be a cul-de-sac but they will be a long one.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 12, 2024 10:54:10 GMT
The German energy policy was to use hydrogen to generate electricity by 2045. The idea was gradually phase out coal then nuclear but then the Japanese tsunami caused a knee jerk reaction to nuclear power.
Read an interesting article today how Trump's resistance to EV has effectively knocked America behind in the tech. race. China has something like 75% of global battery production and a huge chunk of solar generation. Not a transport issue as much as the ability to defend as in drone attacks as part of the military arsenal used by Ukraine. A relatively low cost defence mechanism.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 12, 2024 11:25:26 GMT
Certainly hydrogen as a fuel is far more efficient in terms of miles per kg than EVs and time to 'refill'. Remember how Adrian Flux makes money - selling insurance to niche customers with a fair smattering of Telegraph readers who wish the whole BEV thing would go away. You really have to work very hard to make a case that using electricity to convert water to hydrogen, compressing it, storing it, transporting it, storing it again and converting it back into electricity in a fuel cell with its own maximum efficiency of 60 percent is somehow more efficient than simply putting it (via the grid, of course) into a vehicle. There's a possible use case in the heaviest of heavy vehicles, but most of the hydrogen puff is greenwashing from the likes of Shell and Centrica. See also 'green fuels'. EVs may be a cul-de-sac but they will be a long one. Hydrogen vehicles are EVs too. Just much less efficient than BEVs.
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Post by Alanović on Sept 12, 2024 11:29:07 GMT
Oh FFS. Not again.
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Post by EspadaIII on Sept 12, 2024 12:03:06 GMT
You may end up with a car weighing only 1.5 tonnes rather than 2 tonnes of similar size and performance??
But yes - not that again!
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Post by Humph on Sept 12, 2024 12:28:52 GMT
Isn’t it more desirable that a range of road transport fuel solutions are explored rather than taking a four legs good two legs bad position? One size fits all is usually a compromise. Compromises tend to have a habit of not really being ideal for anyone.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 12, 2024 12:39:18 GMT
False dichotomy, Humph. Hydrogen isn’t being touted as a serious alternative but as a diversion, by the fossil energy companies — whose gas would be required to produce most of it — and the likes of Toyota, who bet big against BEVs and got it wrong. The underlying aim is to delay the electric transition and keep their old assets paying out for longer. Hydrogen fuel cells have been about for decades. There’s no equivalent technology in that world to the lithium ion battery that took the BEV from milk float to mainstream. In other words, if hydrogen vehicles were viable, economical road transport, we’d already have them.
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Post by Humph on Sept 12, 2024 12:44:58 GMT
Oh ok, I don’t really care anymore anyway. Just thought it might be interesting to those who do.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 12, 2024 16:09:23 GMT
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 12, 2024 17:59:10 GMT
>> Hydrogen vehicles are EVs too. Just much less efficient than BEVs.
Fuel cell vehicles might be an EV using a fuel cell to generate electricity, but there are also vehicles with combustion engines that use hydrogen as a fuel - and they are not EVs of any kind.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 12, 2024 18:08:56 GMT
…and are not the subject of this discussion.
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Post by Humph on Sept 12, 2024 18:33:51 GMT
Why not? Surely it’s at least interesting, even educational to explore all aspects of alternative fuel options? Well it is for me anyway.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 12, 2024 19:21:25 GMT
Oh, please yourselves. I suppose there’ll be someone itching to go to work atop a Saturn V.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 12, 2024 19:41:03 GMT
I thought it was about hydrogen powered cars? Which doesn't only mean a fuel cell. BMW for example have had ICE cars running on hydrogen: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7Although the IX5 Hydrogen does use a fuel cell.
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