Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 8:19:32 GMT
Reform take votes form Labour and Conservative so you can't just say ad Reform votes to Tory. And, in a PR system, the vote shares for each party would be entirely different, not just the share for the LibDems, so it's an error to say Labour would have got fewer seats because we simply don't know what their vote share would have been under a PR election. Also, their campaign was literally designed to sacrifice votes on safe seats to prioritise those seats where they wanted to overturn an incumbent, which was a strategy deigned to win an election under FPTP. And it worked. The problem the country has now got is that Labour are never going to countenance electoral reform. Nor, I expect, House of Lords reform. Nor any kind of meaningful Constitutional reform, meaning we will remain open to having a government again which will abuse its power, as the outgoing government did for so long.
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 8, 2024 12:31:11 GMT
Could be worse - we could be in France....
I can't decide who is worse; the far left or the far right. For me, you know where you stand with the far right. Fascists, racists, anti-semites, but tempting to some because the trains run on time and motorways get built. The far left are more insidious, as they pretend to like everyone but then slowly you realise that they only really like you if you parrot their weird beliefs and if anyone disagrees with them, they get cancelled or worse. Oh and the roads and trains are as bad as ever. You can see why people voted Reform (I didn't in the end).
We had five candidates in our constituency. We did not receive a single piece of election literature from any party.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Jul 8, 2024 13:28:45 GMT
Far left, far right it doesn't matter you end up with one person who:
1. Won't listen or debate
2. Resorts to violence to enforce their vision
Either way dead is dead. The method of death is irrelevant, the result the same.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 13:55:00 GMT
Could be worse - we could be in France.... I can't decide who is worse; the far left or the far right. For me, you know where you stand with the far right. Fascists, racists, anti-semites, but tempting to some because the trains run on time and motorways get built. The far left are more insidious, as they pretend to like everyone but then slowly you realise that they only really like you if you parrot their weird beliefs and if anyone disagrees with them, they get cancelled or worse. Oh and the roads and trains are as bad as ever. You can see why people voted Reform (I didn't in the end). We had five candidates in our constituency. We did not receive a single piece of election literature from any party. Nope, still can't see a single justifiable reason why anyone would vote Reform. I struggle to see how anyone can justify voting Conservative though this time also, but I am prepared to accept there might be something I'm missing there, the only rational thing I can imagine is that some of the re-elected MPs are actually good constituency MPS and were voted for on that basis, there's certainly no justification for voting for their party on its record in government. Still enrages me that people have re-elected the likes of Cruella Braverman in spite of everything she's done. And Mark Francois, the walty little Penfold lookylikee. Horrible, horrible individuals with vile, disgusting views and appalling records. They shame our Parliament with their presence, as do all 5 Reform MPs. |
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 8, 2024 14:27:47 GMT
If you put it like that I abhor the five MPS who were elected on a single issue - Gaza. Those MPs want my family and friends and probably me - dead. They are "Horrible, horrible individuals with vile, disgusting views and appalling records. They shame our Parliament with their presence."
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Post by bromptonaut on Jul 8, 2024 14:36:09 GMT
If you put it like that I abhor the five MPS who were elected on a single issue - Gaza. Those MPs want my family and friends and probably me - dead. They are "Horrible, horrible individuals with vile, disgusting views and appalling records. They shame our Parliament with their presence." Are you sure they were elected on a single issue? The guy who unseated Ashworth in Leicester South Shokat Adam, a local professional, says there's more to it: www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/06/shockat-adam-independent-muslim-mp-leicester-south-victory-not-sectarianThe other oddity is Leicester East where two disgraced LAbour folks, Claudia Webbe and Keith Vaz, standing as independents let in the first Tory there since the unlamented Peter Bruinvels. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 15:02:00 GMT
I didn't say it was an exhaustive list.
Not sure why it would be worse to be in France either, their electoral system has just proven its worth by yet again keeping fascists out of government. Ours allowed a governing party to be beholden to its extremist wing to the great detriment of our country for the last 8 years.
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 8, 2024 18:14:17 GMT
Bromp - several of the candidates were campaigning exclusively on the Gaza ticket (George Galloway - although thankfully he lost); the the exclusion of the non-Muslim voters who are far more likely to be interested in the NHS, Social Care, Education etc was a disgrace and shows sectarianism is back with avengence.
Anyway I do agree that Brexit has not been a good thing and wish it hadn't happened. As I have said numerous times, the EU is not perfect but for the vast majority of us, being in would have been better than leaving.
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Post by bromptonaut on Jul 9, 2024 10:24:02 GMT
Bromp - several of the candidates were campaigning exclusively on the Gaza ticket (George Galloway - although thankfully he lost); the the exclusion of the non-Muslim voters who are far more likely to be interested in the NHS, Social Care, Education etc was a disgrace and shows sectarianism is back with avengence. Anyway I do agree that Brexit has not been a good thing and wish it hadn't happened. As I have said numerous times, the EU is not perfect but for the vast majority of us, being in would have been better than leaving. I was thinking specifically of those elected. We had one of GG's men here but I saw neither hide nor hair except possibly one of the flyers delivered by post. Obvs, given you background/faith, you will see the whole thing through a different prism to my lefty liberal one. |
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Post by EspadaIII on Jul 9, 2024 10:35:13 GMT
You said it!
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