Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Sept 25, 2024 16:02:32 GMT
I can get the money back by requesting it from eon - in fact there's an alert when I log on because they want me to know I should request some back. I will at some point soon.
Our DD is lower than they would have set it but it's not far off what we should have paid monthly. We are using less electric in this house for sure but wanted to get to the full year before reviewing. We also used a lot less gas than the previous house. Over some cold winters the amount of gas used in the previous house was over 4 times the amount. Not that we didn't have heating on here but only over the winter and then my wife quickly wanted it off.
I know I don't have an EV but what I should have been paying for the last twelve months for gas and electric based on my current tariff (so it's gone up, down, etc.) is £95pm or £1150pa. Which is less than I expected by some margin based on the old house figures. Based on the same energy use I think it will be more like £100pm after October 1st. There are only two of us in this 4 bed house though. And it's about 20 years old vs over 100. And doesn't have a cellar with a radiator in it.
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,425
Member is Online
|
Post by WDB on Sept 30, 2024 7:48:23 GMT
Zero% PCP offer already on the 4. I was surprised when the test drive elf told me cars were available for near-immediate delivery. This suggests my concerns about making enough cars in time may have been misplaced — but possibly that enough potential customers like me shared them to get sales off to a slow start.
I know I found dealbreakers in the car but they won’t apply to everyone. I suspect for many, the width will be a bigger concern than the rear-view device. But I’d still like to see it do well.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,809
|
Post by bpg on Sept 30, 2024 10:21:31 GMT
Tricky one really. The news that Volvo had pulled although both brands being under Geely you wonder how much impact that really has. A new car being pushed at 0% doesn't look good longer term. It might get a few company bums on seats then what ? At three years who's going to pick them up ?
This whole fast charging is great for business users, I'm not so sure for owner 2 onward.
I'm looking forwards to solid state batteries and what they bring. More range ? More resilience to high speed charging ? Both ? Neither ? It's interesting (for my little geek head).
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,425
Member is Online
|
Post by WDB on Sept 30, 2024 10:49:07 GMT
It might get a few company bums on seats then what ? At three years who's going to pick them up? Not sure I buy that as an objection. The GFV at 4 years on the single-motor car, like the one I drove, is about £26,000. That might generate a lot of ‘equity in the vehicle’ calls from dealers, like the one that persuaded me to change the i3. But it also suggests they’ll be very affordable on the used EV market, which will be in full swing by 2028.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,809
|
Post by bpg on Sept 30, 2024 11:18:48 GMT
That 2028 date is UK specific. The annual % market share figures set by the previous government only applies to new, this I suspect would curtail main dealer interest in used if their incentives are loaded to new car sales by the manufacturers they represent.
There's a lot dependant on what, if any tinkering, the new government feels inclined to do.
According to howmanyleft Polestar had ~25,000 2's registered last year and 27,000+ have been registered this year.
It will be interesting to see how this develops. Dealers will remain cautious over EV stock until they see a turn in the tide by private buyers. What is going to trigger that turn ? The government could implement a polluter pays tax on fossil fuels what would the knock on effect be to the wider economy ? It's all a balancing act.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Sept 30, 2024 13:33:25 GMT
Some second owners will need rapid DC charging if they cannot charge at home. But you mention fast charging so you might mean 11kW or even 22kW which is useless at home in most of the UK. Maybe if you live on a farm or somewhere with 3 phase electric supply.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,809
|
Post by bpg on Sept 30, 2024 14:19:24 GMT
When I say fast charging I mean DC charging. Except it's not always fast, 50kW, 300kW is all DC it all has a relatively negative effect on the battery if not managed and constantly stuffing 90+% by comparison to AC charging. I view DC charging as the 'what'll it do mister' of EVs, completely irrelevant for most users, significant for a small number. Humph prioritised distance between stops to exercise his camel bladder, as do I, EspadaIII prefers mega charges every two or three hours.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Sept 30, 2024 16:41:21 GMT
I would also be wary of relying on DC charging. And why buying second hand might mean battery capacity down the line might not be great. Someone in a business vehicle might not care of the impact of charging from nearly empty to 100% on a high voltage DC charger.
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,425
Member is Online
|
Post by WDB on Sept 30, 2024 19:36:30 GMT
Most learn not to bother once they realise how long 80-100 takes. Leaving at 80, even with a quick stop later, usually makes for a shorter journey time, which is what yer average business driver cares most about.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Sept 30, 2024 20:55:21 GMT
I was thinking about this though.... if the manufacturer really does not want you to charge beyond 80% because it shortens the life of the battery, then the nominal capacity should be at that 80%. It's already a bit less than total capacity. This leaves more more to distribute the charge and which cells are used etc. Selling something that they warn against using in some way is wrong.
At least have something you have to acknowledge if you want to go above that 80% so it's recorded (without chance of deletion) and so future owners will know.
It's either 100% fine without damage to the cells to charge on a rapid charger from 80 to 100% or it's not. But I think rapid charging is some cars is bad full stop because of the thermals.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Sept 30, 2024 22:10:12 GMT
Just to add an analogy with say a smart phone...
This is a bit like charging smart phones. Original USB was 5V at 0.5A... Okay for the iPhone original maybe but not great for today's phones. So we start getting more amps to charge faster. Then some thinking that if the phone/device and charger can communicate the voltage can be changed as well so we ended up with 9V (and higher) and more watts. And more amps full stop.
Today we have well over 45W charging... all going into a phone/tablet battery. Great. Even QI charging is crazy.
And eventually over a few years the battery degrades. We have all experienced this* so either live with it for a bit, pay to replace the battery or accept you've had it long enough and it's got a bit slow that you get a new one.... Bonus for the original manufacturer because you might choose them again (thinking Apple).
So did we need such rapid charging? No. Did it damage batteries? Yes. But people wanted to fast charge devices. And the shorter life of the device was a bonus to manufacturers.
* I fairly recently upgraded from a working Galaxy S9 to an S23. The phone was fine but the battery would drain quickly. I knew it was (after 6 years?) likely due to charging to full too much (fast charger) and I'd have just replaced the battery soon. But the speaker/earpiece had gone really quiet and made it not much use as a phone. It was a good phone and was great all that time, with dual SIM or SIM/SDCARD. And it had a headphone jack.
Phones also get slower with more advanced stuff in apps and in web code. But manufacturers need us to buy new more frequently. So I say rapid charging was a useful feature but also what kills a lot of phones. But hey a new battery is cheap and £600-800 every few years for a new phone is fine especially if spread 0% over 3 years.
Back to cars.... battery replacement is more expensive. New car is even more expensive. Different business models.
P,S, Why an S23 and not a Google phone? Well I liked the idea of the Google vanilla experience but that visor arrangement on the back for cameras... Please no. And some of the AI touted as good in Google phone is in Samsung phones. I can vouch for the editing of photos to remove 'things' works well.
|
|
bpg
Full Member
Posts: 2,809
|
Post by bpg on Oct 1, 2024 5:54:34 GMT
I was thinking about this though.... if the manufacturer really does not want you to charge beyond 80% because it shortens the life of the battery, then the nominal capacity should be at that 80%. That won't happen as the range number would then fall from what is in some cases marginal to unacceptable. All to accommodate the bragging rights what'll it do mister ? 350kW charging, son number. People need to wait for the chemistry to catch up with the tech or accept the limitations of battery chemistry as it is today. We never saw the need for dual nozzle fillers with petrol road cars, one for fuel the other to suck air out of the tank so we could cram fuel in faster. For most people an EV will probably do a job, the downside for me, is the motorbike range and having to stop every couple of hours. With a motorbike you can use the stretch but it's still a faff stopping every 120-150 miles. I don't need or want to stop every 90-120 minutes when I've got an 8 - 12 hour journey. I will stop once or twice but not 5+ times.
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,425
Member is Online
|
Post by WDB on Oct 1, 2024 8:48:23 GMT
Just to add an analogy with say a smart phone... ...as someone always does, because that's the lithium ion battery people are most familiar with. But those same people put their phone batteries through a full charge-discharge cycle - maybe two - every day (and yes, possibly force unhealthy amounts of current into them) - so they will use up their probable 1000 healthy cycles in a couple of years. EV batteries, on the other hand, have battery management and cooling systems to manage the charge rate and the temperature, and can go two weeks of typical use on one charge cycle. 1000 cycles of even its relatively small battery will run my big EV over 300,000km, which is getting on for 20 years' use. And that's not even to the point where it's useless, just to where its endurance is (likely to be) reduced. My small EV has used maybe 100 of its charge cycles in three years, invariably (AC) charged to 100 percent because it wasn't designed with the option not to, and shows no loss of endurance so far. Samsung, which made the cells, has run samples well past 1000 cycles, and took 4600 cycles for capacity to fall to 80 percent. (This data is for the 94Ah battery I had in the first i3 but the 120Ah is an update of the same design.) insideevs.com/news/338067/bmw-i3-samsung-sdi-94-ah-battery-rated-for-524000-miles/ With DC charging, the hazard is less charging to 100 percent than charging to 100 and leaving it there for days on end, which isn't something the time-sensitive business drivers who may have been the first users of these used EVs are likely to do.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Oct 1, 2024 9:46:38 GMT
Some EVs with 800V systems are able to split that into two separate 400V systems for charging purposes. I am sure I've read of at least one cat that will allow it to be plugged into two chargers at the same time for faster charging.
As for dual nozzle fillers... there were cars with dual fuel tanks and therefore two nozzles. You had to manually switch from one tank to the other. Jaguar XJ wasn't it?
|
|
WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,425
Member is Online
|
Post by WDB on Oct 1, 2024 9:55:21 GMT
Really? Or are you thinking of the Audis that have two AC ports but an interlock that prevents both being open at once?
|
|