bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 21, 2023 21:15:43 GMT
Anyone who has two EVs with that kind of capacity is not going to be queuing at the soup kitchen in the morning.
That being said, they're not affluent by throwing their money about. I'm sure they'll figure it out where they can charge both cars as efficiently as possible.
What I would add to the above is the transition I proposed is based on the current tech. Obviously, as better tech becomes available then more people move to the best option though I'm still sceptical of the one size fits all model. We got to about 110 years of the internal combustion engine with two options still on the table.
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Post by dixinormus on Sept 22, 2023 20:52:07 GMT
How can anyone trust anything the government says?
Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, and forgetting the limited charging infrastructure, don’t you think that the price of electricity will double shortly afterwards? They will need the tax revenue!
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 22, 2023 21:27:28 GMT
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 23, 2023 15:16:37 GMT
What is road fuel duty? Excise duty is charged on most hydrocarbon oils. The two main categories of road fuel – unleaded petrol and diesel – are charged duty at 52.95p per litre. When VAT is included, tax represents 49% of the final pump price for petrol, and 46% of the final pump price for diesel (as of May 2022). Fuel duties are estimated to raise £26.2 billion in 2022/23. By comparison duties on all other excisable goods – tobacco products and alcoholic drinks – are set to raise £23.6 billion in this year (Office for Budget Responsibility, Economic and Fiscal Outlook, CP 648, March 2022, Table 3.4). commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00824/20% of 80p/kWh DC charging or 5% of 27p/kWh AC domestic charging is not going to cover it. Services are going to be cut or road tolls and privatised services which were previously in the public sector/other funding sources will be required. |
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 23, 2023 17:24:38 GMT
Curious place to find a typo but isn’t the correct rate 57.95p?
It’s bleedin’ obvious anyway. As one source of revenue declines — pipe tobacco, anyone? — taxation moves to another luxury or privilege to make up.
Hard to increase VAT on home charging without a lot of unintended consequences — or a lot new, separate meters — but taxation by road use seems fair and feasible, given that pollution is not the only burden imposed by personal motor transport.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 23, 2023 19:26:31 GMT
The world governments have missed a trick with new EVs. Like most other modern cars, they are connected via inbuilt mobile data connections to the Internet. They could all be reporting mileage driven (and when) centrally. So there could somehow be a flat charge per mile if this was all thought through. But it wasn't. But it would have been fairer.
But how to monitor miles driven in cars? Lots of cameras and back-end IT to work out journeys? Or extra telematics in cars needed - who pays?
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 24, 2023 0:14:15 GMT
I thought it was 57p/litre but was not sure, a quick search turned up the 52.95 rate.
Add VAT of 3p/litre on a litre of petrol @£1.50 = 60p or 40% tax take.
Some fag packet maths:
33.27m cars
4.54m LGVs
Average 12,000 miles/year @ 3 miles/kWh (allowing for seasonal variations - winter running; LGVs not getting 3 miles/kWh) = 4,000kWh/vehicle/year.
IF every vehicle charged on a DC fast charger would generate £640/vehicle = £24.27bn (80p/kWh @ 20% VAT)
AC charging at home £54 per vehicle or £2.05bn (27p/kWh @ 5% VAT).
Unintended consequences are government specialities. Look at your current electric and gas daily standing charge. Roughly £1/day or £365/year just for being connected to the grid before you use anything. Makes that first kWh of the year a very expensive one for those struggling to make ends meet and using very little energy whereas those living in very expensive houses to heat and light won't notice it.
Telematics data is already there and being collected by vehicle. Look at any EV app it will give you a summary of energy consumed and distance traveled that day and rolled up to a monthly total.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 24, 2023 7:51:02 GMT
Looking at the £26.2bn figure and excluding HGVs, buses as companies which are VAT registered I'm getting an average fuel spend of £1,455 per annum which is possible I suppose post COVID people working from home.
£1.70/litre in 2022/23 sound about right ? Buys 188 imp. gallons @ an average 40mpg gives an approximately 7,500 miles not 12,000 miles driven.
Redoing those EV numbers based on 7,500 miles/vehicle looks a lot worse for public service funding.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Sept 24, 2023 8:51:46 GMT
I thought it was 57p/litre but was not sure, a quick search turned up the 52.95 rate. Add VAT of 3p/litre on a litre of petrol @£1.50 = 60p or 40% tax. 52.95p is right. I’d forgotten the temporary 2022 5p reduction that wasn’t reversed in 2023. I don’t recognise 3p, though. On a £1.50 litre, the VAT component is 25p. Add the 53p and you have 78p, or 52 percent, tax overall. |
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 24, 2023 11:02:37 GMT
Brain fog, dunno why I thought VAT was 2%.
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Post by EspadaIII on Sept 26, 2023 13:08:34 GMT
The possible stopping of HS2 will be a disaster and an embarrassment. All the more so because so many other countries manage to improve public transport and roads at great pace.
I have just arrived in Israel which will be by no means an exemplar. We flew over the coast and of course it is very familiar to me. What was surprising was the wide dirt strip I cycled on in April is now a fully operational dual carriageway opening up a new area for housing and business.
Similarly the rail system is being expanded both by conversion to electric trains but also opening new routes to serve commuter suburbs and towns so that the need to drive into Tel Aviv is reduced. And the whole country is accessible on a mix of public transport systems using one app on which you can pay as well.
It is so easy to get around and yet in the UK we have constantly delayed trains, multiple payment systems and bonkers ticketing. We need any government to get a grip if it really wants to get to net zero in an affordable way.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 26, 2023 13:31:00 GMT
Depends what you mean by get a grip.
The numbers I showed above really were back of a fag packet maths, if you run the real numbers it will make you weep.
Thirteen years of austerity after someone thought they were clever saying the cupboard was bare (proving there is no government of any colour any better than the other), it's barer, more bare, however you want to say it, pots to urinate in, there are none.
On top of that there is the larger pile of debt to service post COVID borrowing.
It's not unknown for a government to place an income tax reduction in the run up to a general election as a sweetner, don't see that happening this time unless the current government really do not see themselves being re-elected and shafting the country and next government.
Not sure what the answer is that's not unpalatable to all.
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