bpg
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Sept 14, 2023 11:34:30 GMT
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Post by bpg on Sept 14, 2023 11:34:30 GMT
PCP appears to be falling out of favour here in Europe. Manufacturers websites now quote for fixed mileage hand back lease with no option to buy at the end or cash sale only.
I'm leaning towards the latter and away from any form of leasing. Will drop down to two cars by the end of this year and run them for the next few years before looking for something near the end of the decade.
Of course if there is a too good to miss deal come along then that will be looked at.
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WDB
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Sept 14, 2023 11:35:41 GMT
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Post by WDB on Sept 14, 2023 11:35:41 GMT
I’ll be amazed if liquid fuel isn’t both taxed to infinity and beyond or becomes difficult to obtain as forecourts close in that period. Of course. Petrol will go the way of coal. But EV refusers will still be able to get around by burning old copies of the Daily Express.
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Post by Alanović on Sept 14, 2023 11:44:02 GMT
Could be! Although, I’ll be amazed if liquid fuel isn’t both taxed to infinity and beyond or becomes difficult to obtain as forecourts close in that period. It's a good jobs EVs, and the necessary charging infrastructure, will be fit for purpose before that happens.
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Sept 14, 2023 11:53:36 GMT
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Post by Humph on Sept 14, 2023 11:53:36 GMT
We must hope so of course.
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Post by Alanović on Sept 14, 2023 11:56:42 GMT
It's pretty much there already. I don't think it's a risk worth worrying about in terms of the next 10 years.
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Sept 14, 2023 11:58:43 GMT
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Post by Humph on Sept 14, 2023 11:58:43 GMT
I’ll be amazed if liquid fuel isn’t both taxed to infinity and beyond or becomes difficult to obtain as forecourts close in that period. Of course. Petrol will go the way of coal. But EV refusers will still be able to get around by burning old copies of the Daily Express. I not a refuser of EVs, nor indeed a fan of the tabloids, but for now anyway, I’m happy to let others do the R&D while I get on with using my perfectly useful old school car. When it suits me, I’ll have no problem switching, but for now, it doesn’t. God speed the early adopters of course.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Sept 14, 2023 12:02:54 GMT
Carbon Intensity of electricity reported in Germany overnight went above 600gCO 2eq/kWh from 1am to 7am peaking at 645@5am.
Running an EV will obviously benefit those who choose to live in urban areas, not really benefiting the environment as a whole though, more a left pocket, right pocket exercise.
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Post by EspadaIII on Sept 14, 2023 13:52:46 GMT
Certainly if the government is serious about zero carbon emmisions it needs to help those who do not have the pockets deep enough to pay for a change of fuel without a consequential saving. Why would anyone choose a more capital expensive piece of equipment (boiler or car) to do something less effective at greater running costs.
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WDB
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Sept 14, 2023 14:12:26 GMT
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Post by WDB on Sept 14, 2023 14:12:26 GMT
Well, much the same reasoning could apply to managing your own rubbish rather than dumping it in the street: it’s the right thing to do. It’s a question of habituation — albeit in this case a particularly long-established habit that we’ve allowed to become disproportionately important.
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bpg
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Sept 14, 2023 14:47:03 GMT
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Post by bpg on Sept 14, 2023 14:47:03 GMT
No one is saying they shouldn't live more cleanly. I think EspIII makes a valid point though regarding cost, I've looked at installing a heat pump and solar panels. Total 70,000€ and it will double my annual bill to run the heating system while no one has offered an answer of cleaning these systems. Who is going to sign up to that as a good idea ?
Also, I think people are questioning electricity as a power source. It's often quoted how inefficient air pumps are when compared with an EV. Regardless of what fuel is used in a power station to create the steam to turn the turbine there's ~66% loss from energy source to plug and a further 10% from plug to battery in the vehicle. Ah, but ! What about solar and hydro ? Hydro is around 1% of total in the UK, solar ~8% and that's for August. Wind is doing the heavy lifting roughly 45% of the grid, still a reliance on gas ~30% and nuclear ~20% to balance the grid out. Unfortunately, as good as wind is it's not predictable and the grid needs predictability. I'm sure batteries will come to store this energy generated from these cleaner sources and release in a predictable manner in time.
Meanwhile what is being done about deforestation and all the other dirty operations happening around the planet? I won't sleep well in my bed knowing I've done my bit to clean up the planet when pollution is still increasing. We will reach a point where the air will be so polluted no amount of new forests, plantations whatever will work because the air will be too toxic for anything to grow. No amount of taxation or deck chair re-arranging by politicians will fix that.
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Sept 14, 2023 17:53:55 GMT
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Post by EspadaIII on Sept 14, 2023 17:53:55 GMT
We do have to remember that a good reliable ICE, preferrably Euro 6, will be permitted to run almost unrestricted, for the next 20 years. As manufacturers start to replace ICE with EV and the number of new ICE on the road decline the remainder will improve their value. The best car you want is the modern equivalent of the 1992 Honda Accord. It will run forever if serviced correctly. Bizarre... In the Aldi car park tonight. 1992 Honda Accord 2.0 auto in metallic grey. Immaculate interior. Exterior slightly crusty but not too bad, if fact pretty good for a 30 year old car.
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Residuals
Sept 14, 2023 19:14:10 GMT
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Post by dixinormus on Sept 14, 2023 19:14:10 GMT
The obvious “con” with PCP, that many people fall for IMHO, is an attractive monthly payment figure which the manufacturer can effectively pluck out of thin air. Woo the masses with an eye-catching £199/month figure, then in the background set the term, interest rate, and size of balloon to whatever you need it to be.
So the punter who is lured by the low monthly price isn’t necessarily getting a better deal than the next customer who chooses to pay more each month, incur less interest, and ends up with a much smaller balloon payment (or more equity) at the end of the term.
I would wager that many PCPers have no intention or ability to pay the balloon and buy the car at the end of the term. So it’s easy repeat business for the salesperson to roll them over to a new car on a new agreement, which most people do. Where it might come unstuck is that the new car suddenly 1) is priced a lot higher, 2) the interest rate payable is a lot higher, and 3) the final balloon payment is also higher to mitigate 1) and 2).
TLDR: it’s a slippery slope to increasing debt, and/or punters may end up car-less when they can’t/won’t pay the balloon or can’t/won’t stomach the fact that their next PCP is going to cost them more than their current one.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 14, 2023 19:28:04 GMT
>> We do have to remember that a good reliable ICE, preferrably Euro 6, will be permitted to run almost unrestricted, for the next 20 years.
As the ban on pure ICE nears then I think an older ICE is not a bad thing to have. The ULEZ's at the moment are targeting non-Euro 6 cars and we don't yet have Euro 7.
This was a factor in the decision for a Euro 6 petrol automatic car in July.
But I am thinking of an EV. Prices aren't bad on Skoda/VW Up! models. Even those with the bigger battery. I have a plan in place for charging that does not involve the street. Thinking about mid term getting storage batteries but maybe not solar (yet).
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Post by Alanović on Sept 15, 2023 7:58:13 GMT
The obvious “con” with PCP, that many people fall for IMHO, is an attractive monthly payment figure which the manufacturer can effectively pluck out of thin air. Woo the masses with an eye-catching £199/month figure, then in the background set the term, interest rate, and size of balloon to whatever you need it to be. So the punter who is lured by the low monthly price isn’t necessarily getting a better deal than the next customer who chooses to pay more each month, incur less interest, and ends up with a much smaller balloon payment (or more equity) at the end of the term. I would wager that many PCPers have no intention or ability to pay the balloon and buy the car at the end of the term. So it’s easy repeat business for the salesperson to roll them over to a new car on a new agreement, which most people do. Where it might come unstuck is that the new car suddenly 1) is priced a lot higher, 2) the interest rate payable is a lot higher, and 3) the final balloon payment is also higher to mitigate 1) and 2). TLDR: it’s a slippery slope to increasing debt, and/or punters may end up car-less when they can’t/won’t pay the balloon or can’t/won’t stomach the fact that their next PCP is going to cost them more than their current one. No worse than leasing, then. It's just a way into a reliable, new or nearly new car to which people commit a smallish monthly payment. It suits people who like to keep renewing their vehicle every 3/4 years rather than buying and running into the ground. I don't think it's fair to characterise it as a con. You're just paying the depreciation (roughly) whilst you have use of the vehicle. Seems pretty fair to me.
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bpg
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Sept 15, 2023 8:06:59 GMT
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Post by bpg on Sept 15, 2023 8:06:59 GMT
If we are to save the planet should we really be getting a new car every two, three or four years ?
Just looked on the MOT history checker, the Volvo S60 I traded in 10 years ago in November is still going strong. It has just shy of 301,000 miles on the clock now.
Advisories for tyres near limit/worn on the edges - new set of tyres and tracking would fix that; towbar corroded - that's new, never had a towbar; rear discs worn and pitted; oil leak not excessive; PAS slight seepage.
That doesn't look like a list of impending doom for an 18 year old car still clocking up 19,000 miles per year.
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