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Post by EspadaIII on Feb 23, 2023 6:59:15 GMT
Surprised wind up radios are not in the mix as well.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 23, 2023 8:25:07 GMT
Sounds more like an indictment of poor infrastructure planning than anything intrinsic to EVs. An above-ground grid will always be vulnerable to extreme weather — to which, of course, all those fossil generators contribute — but solar generation and local storage would provide an effective backup in emergencies and lessen the stress at easier times.
In any case, if your EV battery is charged before the emergency, in what set of circumstances are you going to need to charge it again before the grid is restored?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2023 16:15:12 GMT
Personal ponderings on the economics of electrification... I'm starting to wonder...I'm starting to wonder if I might be better off with a 'paid for' petrol hybrid vehicle than with a Leaf. Here's why. I don't commute to work any more, and probably never will again. Even if I do, my company are removing the free EV charging, and making employees pay for it. Gah. Anyway. Looking at fuel costs and car payments alone (ceteris paribus principle) I reckon my annual urban mileage is now 6000, which I do in the Leaf. My average miles per kwh is currently showing as 4.2, so let's call it 4. So that's 1500kwh of electricity per annum, at 7p per kwh that's £105 in fuel for the year. The car costs me £150 a month in payments, so that's £1800 plus the £150, equals £1950, so let's call it £2000. The same mileage in a petrol hybrid delivering 55mpg would cost me £750 a year in petrol, assuming £1.50 per litre. So, if I could find a reliable hybrid for £5000 (i.e. the equity I have in the Leaf), add say £500 for maintenance every year (I'll discount servicing as I pay a couple hundred for the Leaf, so assuming the same for a hybrid), I'd be £500 up. Now the question is, is £500 worth spending for the peace of mind of a nearly new EV with likely zero maintenance costs, and the smuggity smugness of of zero emissions into the local air. Hmm. I think...probably the Leaf wins. Mainly because the only £5000 hybrids on the market are Prius and Insight. Which are a bit meh. Of course, the big question is how long can I hang on to 7p per kwh... Interesting exercise, and before anyone starts with the "I told you so" routine, I had envisaged this situation unfolding when I bought my first Leaf in 2017. In the intervening time I've had almost free fuel for several years, and have run nearly new cars for very little money, under warranty. I always knew that free electricity and other cost cost increases were going to come one day, and always planned to keep this in mind to ensure I still feel an EV is delivering value for money for me over "bangernomics". Yeah, I know, don't quote your own posts. But for the sake of continuity, I have just been hit with my new electricity price options from 19th April onwards. Yep, the 7p rate is now gone. I can continue on a similar off-peak tariff, but at 12p per kwh, with a daytime rate of 44p per kwh (current daytime 33p). Or, go onto their standard variable tariff without any off-peak rates, at the 33p price cap. Their estimations for the next year show I'd spend more on electricity using the off-peak tariff than on the standard variable rate, so I'm now looking at 33p per kwh for fuelling the car, instead of 7p - 5x the rate, so about £500 a year instead of the £105 I stated earlier. I obviously don't do enough mileage (or use enough off-peak electricity in total) to offset the higher daytime rate if I chose to go with the offpeak EV tariff. So. Hmm. Even with the massive hike in leccy costs, I still think I'll probably keep the Leaf, or get a newer one. Prices are gonna come down, right? Right? As an aside, the Leaf is finally back from the bodyshop and looking how Nissan intended. |
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Mar 15, 2023 17:01:50 GMT
7p per kWh was never going to last, at least in the short term. But it won't be as high as 33p for ever either, as renewables become more prevalent and the unit price is unpegged from gas. Your annual usage of the Leaf is similar to mine of the i3, and my marginal cost of about 8p a mile is still less than half what the CLS costs, before I even think about the emissions. When I first took a diesel car to France (the S60 in 2003) it cost about 5p a mile and that felt virtually free - and 8p today is probably about the same in real terms.
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Post by EspadaIII on Mar 20, 2023 12:01:00 GMT
In the last 12 months I have factored in 40p/kWh as standard. Makes the maths easier and probably means that whatever I am calculating, the result is probably better than I was hoping for.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Mar 20, 2023 13:06:11 GMT
Probably - although you do more long trips than we do, which means more public chargers and their 20 percent VAT.
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Post by EspadaIII on Mar 20, 2023 14:23:36 GMT
Yes. Like everything to do with decarbonisation in the UK, there is no consistency, no joined up thinking, no planning, just a hope that people will jump on the band wagon of saving tax and then 'the market' will sort it out.
Well to an extent yes (it works for me but not for everyone), but we are not living in the Victorian era when unless you had some technology you had none at all. Even I can see we need government intervention to smooth the path towards net zero carbon without going back to a pre-industrial type of living.
You cannot have a carbon free 21st Century lifestyle which is at least as good as the first decade of the century without some way of generating and transmitting large quantities of electricity using non-fossil methods. That means using on-shore windfarms, tidal power and a contribution from nuclear and Greenpeace et al will need to decide how to prioritise the competing issues of power generation and environment without destroying our current quality of life.
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Post by Humph on Mar 20, 2023 14:27:37 GMT
There was a mini series documentary on the TV recently hosted by Guy Martin discussing and looking at energy supplies.
Quite interesting and informative actually.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2023 14:49:40 GMT
If only people would stop voting political parties, which believe "the market" can solve all public service problems, into government.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Mar 20, 2023 15:14:43 GMT
…and those political parties need to drop the pretence that ‘green growth’ will let life continue as before. There will be losers, as there always are at times of technological revolution, so they need to focus instead on making sure nobody is left behind. And they need to learn to overrule the bleats of those who object to wind farms or cycle lanes.
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Post by EspadaIII on Mar 21, 2023 9:53:04 GMT
I view on-shore turbines as the modern equivalent of railway viaducts or electricity pylons. Necessary, potentially beautiful, sometimes magnificant and occasionally an eye-sore.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Mar 21, 2023 13:17:11 GMT
Yes. And they take the place of installations that only an industrial historian could love.
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Post by EspadaIII on Mar 21, 2023 13:46:18 GMT
If you are standing on the south coast of Cumbria you have a great (?) view of Heysham Nuclear power station. It is two solid lumps of buildings with no redeeming features whatsoever in terms of style. Turbines look infinitely better.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Mar 21, 2023 17:20:37 GMT
The game changer with wind (and tidal) sourced power will be when we can store it for later use. At the moment they often have to turn off wind turbines because the grid cannot accept the electric. Or at least the section they are connected to. Recently I read some wind farms were paid to turn them off and we had to fire up coal power stations elsewhere for demand.
I've said for a long time that maybe wind could be used to create 'green' hydrogen because we all know some heavier machinery will still need to be powered by something other than electric. JCB is sorting out their engine but they know cheap hydrogen supplies is needed. Alternatively massive batteries like they have in Australia for one solar array.
We'll get there.
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Post by EspadaIII on Mar 22, 2023 9:54:35 GMT
I recall many years ago, Spain developed a salt battery. An array of mirrors directed sunlight onto a tower which contained salt which was heated up until it melted. In the evening the molten salt was used to heat water, to power turbines to create electricity. So many ways of storing 'energy' and the craziness of paying turbines to turn off....
I am so glad I decided to get a battery to go with my solar panel installation. I know it will save me far more that the additional £1,500 it cost - I bet the repay time for that is measured in tens of months rather than years. Just now I am charging at full power (2.5kW) but generating 3.7kW so even with the house using some power, I am exporting to the grid. Not bad for the middle of March.
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