WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 20, 2023 15:14:18 GMT
Ford has noticed what Tesla already knew: that electric motors are simpler than fossil engines, and need much less tailoring to the tastes and regulations of different markets. So it’s dispensing with a big chunk of its development resources in the UK and Germany and doing the engineering in Michigan instead. www.statista.com/chart/29308/job-cuts-at-ford-in-europe/I suspect this is also bad news for all those other ICE facilities set up here since the 1990s. Brexit has taken away their value as an English-speaking toehold in the Single Market. Now they stand to lose their technical reason for existing too. |
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Feb 20, 2023 15:32:51 GMT
Ford has noticed what Tesla already knew: that electric motors are simpler than fossil engines, and need much less tailoring to the tastes and regulations of different markets. So it’s dispensing with a big chunk of its development resources in the UK and Germany and doing the engineering in Michigan instead. While they are reducing the number of engineers there will still be a need for around half the people as Europe and America have very different tastes in chassis engineering. The good news is they will top hat their own underpinnings going forward. |
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 20, 2023 16:09:18 GMT
Does Tesla do any engineering differently for Europe? I don’t know the answer but if not, it seems not to hurt their sales here.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Feb 20, 2023 16:21:53 GMT
I don't know what happens inside Tesla though I do know the requirements for European type approval are different from US and probably far east markets.
There must be some re-engineering happening for the regions.
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Post by EspadaIII on Feb 20, 2023 20:52:03 GMT
If mobile phone software differs for each market (even if it's just language and idioms), car design and the technical requirements of each market will require some local input. But overall, the e-GMP chassis for the various top line Hyundai/Kia/Genesis models is identical worldwide with minor differences for each market.
When Ford produced the original Focus not a single panel was identical from the US to Europe and if they looked identical the flanges were difference.... no wonder they lost money on 'world cars'. Hyundai has shown them how to do it although I suspect many premium European manufacturers worked it out a while back as did the panel van producers.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Feb 20, 2023 22:12:28 GMT
Er, the Focus is 25 years old this year, where was Hyundai in the world car stakes in 1998 ?
The Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy have gone, Fiesta goes this year, Focus bows out in 2025. Maybe you should compare what Ford brings to market in the 21st century with the latest offerings from South Korea.
Edit: 150,000 Mach-E have already been built in NA and China serving 37 countries.
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Post by dixinormus on Feb 21, 2023 7:05:53 GMT
Seems to me that Ford are not interested in the European market. Can’t see many people wanting pick-up trucks or electric “Mustang”s.
The Fiesta and Focus were perennials in the UK top 5 and Ford have effectively given up in those market segments.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Feb 21, 2023 8:14:56 GMT
The days of stack 'em high sell 'em cheap are gone. You'll see manufacturers picking and choosing which segments and markets they operate in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 9:33:17 GMT
Personal ponderings on the economics of electrification...
I'm starting to wonder...I'm starting to wonder if I might be better off with a 'paid for' petrol hybrid vehicle than with a Leaf.
Here's why.
I don't commute to work any more, and probably never will again. Even if I do, my company are removing the free EV charging, and making employees pay for it. Gah. Anyway.
Looking at fuel costs and car payments alone (ceteris paribus principle) I reckon my annual urban mileage is now 6000, which I do in the Leaf. My average miles per kwh is currently showing as 4.2, so let's call it 4. So that's 1500kwh of electricity per annum, at 7p per kwh that's £105 in fuel for the year. The car costs me £150 a month in payments, so that's £1800 plus the £150, equals £1950, so let's call it £2000. The same mileage in a petrol hybrid delivering 55mpg would cost me £750 a year in petrol, assuming £1.50 per litre.
So, if I could find a reliable hybrid for £5000 (i.e. the equity I have in the Leaf), add say £500 for maintenance every year (I'll discount servicing as I pay a couple hundred for the Leaf, so assuming the same for a hybrid), I'd be £500 up. Now the question is, is £500 worth spending for the peace of mind of a nearly new EV with likely zero maintenance costs, and the smuggity smugness of of zero emissions into the local air. Hmm.
I think...probably the Leaf wins. Mainly because the only £5000 hybrids on the market are Prius and Insight. Which are a bit meh.
Of course, the big question is how long can I hang on to 7p per kwh...
Interesting exercise, and before anyone starts with the "I told you so" routine, I had envisaged this situation unfolding when I bought my first Leaf in 2017. In the intervening time I've had almost free fuel for several years, and have run nearly new cars for very little money, under warranty. I always knew that free electricity and other cost cost increases were going to come one day, and always planned to keep this in mind to ensure I still feel an EV is delivering value for money for me over "bangernomics".
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Post by Humph on Feb 21, 2023 9:42:10 GMT
Usually, although of course not always, the smart thing to do is nothing. It’s more or less my mantra.
😉
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 9:49:09 GMT
Well yeah. In this case that means "keep the Leaf". But I thought it was worth at least doing some rudimentary sums on it.
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bpg
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Post by bpg on Feb 21, 2023 10:46:39 GMT
Or, keep the Leaf and install solar panels and battery for your independent home energy management.
I've been wanting to do this for a while now, we got a quote last year, I was uncomfortable with the risk, paying 36k€ and having the liability of the hardware sitting with me after half the payback time. Companies are now springing up whereby you rent the equipment and buy it for 1€ at the end of 20 years. The monthly rental is the same as what I currently pay monthly for grid electricity before it goes up on 1st April effectively fixing my electricity price for the next 20 years and all maintenance, cleaning and replacement is covered for the duration.
Of course after 20 years technology will have moved on etc etc etc.
The new sollar systems generate enough energy to charge my car at 11kWh (on an optimum day) obviously winter days will still have some dependency on grid though the overall overgeneration balance over the year halves the remaining amount I pay to have grid in the house.
Of course energy companies have hedged their bets with the daily standing charge. I can see them hiking the standing charge for anyone using less than what they deem normal usage.
Free, home energy at a carbon equivalent of 35g/kWh or less than 9g/mile based on your numbers Al.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 10:52:10 GMT
Too expensive up front, and I'm hopefully selling up in about 3-4 years. I'm going to be interested in buying a brand new purpose-built (downsized) home to my own specs, with modern heating, ventilation and micro generation installed. I'm not spending a penny more than I have to at this house in the mean time.
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Post by Humph on Feb 21, 2023 15:42:54 GMT
There you go y’see, inertia, it’s the way forward, if you see what I mean!
😉
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Post by dixinormus on Feb 22, 2023 20:23:16 GMT
Swathes of NZ went without power for 6-7 days during the recent cyclone. A mountain of petrol- and diesel-powered generators kept basic services functioning, and of course ICE-powered 4WDs. Think I would buy a back-up generator if I was relying solely on an EV.
Transistor radios are making a comeback too!
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