Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 16:31:08 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg suspended by ABC for two weeks over Holocaust remarks www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60225196I think there can be no doubt over the horror, inhumanity, injustice and abhorrent act(s) that was the Holocaust. Not for one moment. So please don't think I am minimising it in anyway. I know that Hitler in particular and the Nazis in general said it was a matter of race. But it wasn't, was it? Just because Hitler said that members of the Jewish faith were another race doesn't make them so. I've a very good "friend that is a girl but not a girlfriend (anymore)" who is Jewish and we're quite clearly of different religions, but I cannot imagine that makes us of different races, does it? I don't think we've ever thought that it did. As well as that it the worrying trend that different ideas may no longer be discussed. Where the idea is not supported by the masses then the person thinking it must be reviled and expelled. Ironically, an approach pretty much that has led to various campaigns of injustice in this world in the past. I don't like Goldberg much and she has some pretty strange beliefs. Or at least says strange things. But I really do not like the current climate.
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Post by EspadaIII on Feb 2, 2022 17:11:07 GMT
I'm not sure I agree (although you yould be surprised it I did), but not necessarily for the obvious reasons.
Jews are a strange bunch. We were, probably, a race apart. The Children of Israel, wandering through the desert were different to the tribes who lived in the region, as the ancestors came from the Fertile Crescent rather than the Levant. We remained a race until one or both of two exiles occured. The first in about 600BC and the second in about 70AD during the Roman destruction of the Second Temple. Certainly in 70AD Jews dispersed around the known world and the amicable division between Ashkenazim ('white East European Jews') and Sepahardim (Arabic, Maghreb, Horm of Africa influenced Jews). You could say that we joined two or three races and in Israel those differences are very obvious. There are Jews who are as white as a Scandanavian and others who are as black as you can get if your grandfather came from Ethiopia. They are all Jewish and from a religious perspective, I would have no problem with my children marrying either variety. [Edit - I would have no problem anyway, but there is no difference on a religious level between them].
So are we a race? Possibly. Certainly all Jews have genetic similarlities different to others, which imply that we are a race, but we also have genetic differences which imply that we may not be.
Whatever, given the undoubted horror of the Holocaust and the inevitable trouble it was going to get her in, why would Goldberg even bring it up? especially with such a surname....
There is a joke there somewhere... A man comes up to an obviously Jewish person and smacks him arund the head.. Why did you do that? Well my grandfather drowned on the Titanic. What's that got to do with me? Iceberg, Goldberg - its all the same to me..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 17:18:26 GMT
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Feb 2, 2022 17:58:15 GMT
The whole idea of ‘race’ is scientifically nonsensical. There are far greater genetic differences within, say, the so-called African race than there are between some Africans and the so-called European race. We all know we share 96-99 percent of our DNA with our hairier primate relatives, but there’s somewhere between 20 and 50 percent that’s also shared with plants.
But humans attach too much importance to superficial differences, which may be accentuated by inbreeding in groups isolated by geography or culture, and that gives those with an interest in fomenting hatred something to work with.
So demagogues through the ages have gained support by encouraging one group to demonise a superficially different one, and the Nazis industrialised this in a particularly horrific way. So in the sense that the people killed in the Holocaust were not actually fundamentally different from the people who killed them, Goldberg is right. But given that I’ve had to offer three paragraphs of preamble before stating that, you can see it was pretty silly to use a term that the world thinks it understands, even if it doesn’t.
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Post by Humph on Feb 2, 2022 19:28:41 GMT
Ultimately we are all the same race. The human one.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Feb 2, 2022 22:14:48 GMT
I agree with the Chilean - I don't think the Jewish are a separate race despite what the Nazis said. And as Humph says we're all the human race.
What Hitler and the Nazis was wrong and they targeted a subset of communities and did horrendous things which we all know about. But this was not race. Although I think she was wrong to mention it too, if you know what I mean.
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