17 and mobile

I don't think I got cross, Humph. I just explained that there is extreme spousal resistance to ditching the Leaf. I'm sure you understand.

We're still going to be doing 20 miles a day minimum with school running during term time (until at least September 22 I expect as I can't see Jr having a licence much before that), plus other bits and bobs of local running about, days out etc. I will probably also have to be in the dreaded orifice 1 or 2 days a week in the not too distant future, which is 15 miles away.

Your argument is probably technically correct. But I can still see us doing 2 tanks of petrol a month soon, which is about the same cost as a month's finance payment on the Leaf. And before too long, that will be zero. So, on balance, even though it might not be the most penny-efficient approach, I'm favouring keeping the Leaf, factoring in the total lack of enthusiasm I have for trying to argue this all out with someone resistant to the idea from the outset. I will be keeping the Leaf. There is also nothing to stop me getting another Civic or similar in the future if/when circumstances change also. I don't think there's anything unfriendly to a young driver/learner about a Focus/Golf/A3 size car, so long as you keep your eye on the insurance group. I've often stated that's my preference in any case for safety reasons - I just don't like the tiny size of Aygo type things.

Please don't think I'm cross with you, it's just that we're all different and make different choices for or own reasons, sometimes maybe those can't be fully understood or accepted by others, but c'est la vie, and often I'm posting in haste and that makes things brief, and maybe come across as cross, or abrupt.

No he'll be getting a manual licence. To ignore manuals at this stage would be a bit daft I think. Maybe in 10 years time.

I think the delta between our situations is our respective partners. Yours wants/needs to drive more than mine.

Quite interesting to me anyway, but one of my son's best mates is a moderately successful young racing driver, typical path, his dad got him into racing karts at 8 years old and he's been progressing through the ranks since. He has accepted that he's not the next Lewis Hamilton, but he's good enough to be competitive at the lower levels.

At 21 he's still a high insurance risk and his personal car is also an Aygo. However, oddly enough, he chose an automatic one. Just says it's fine for lazy road use and that he gets his performance kicks on tracks.

Oh I agree, as it happens, and I'm glad my son has a manual licence, I guess I was just trying to help you think of two car solutions to your dilemma. Not crashing a small car is of course another option.

I don't know whether it made a difference or not, but my lad's first three months of solo driving were monitored by a black box thingy. He could earn points for safe driving and if he got a sort of "gold star" rating (which he did) they were happy to remove the black box after 12 weeks.

He doesn't drive like Miss Daisy now, but he seems pretty safe when I'm with him anyway. I imagine (aka I'm sure) he pushes it a bit harder when I'm not.

Here's a thing, my grandfather never had an accident in his driving career between 1902 and 1945. My father drove from 1924 until 1980 again without ever crashing, and I've managed from 1975 to date without hitting anything (apart from touching that ruddy kerb five years ago.)

My son has almost four years under his belt similarly uneventfully.

That may be unusual, I wouldn't like to say, and to be fair, his mum has done her best to skew the family statistics.

😬

You'd be ok, you can get them with roll back canvas roofs.
😉

EVs are not automatic. There is nothing to automate, no clutch, no freewheel. The best analogy is to a fixed-gear bike.

But yes, as we’ve said, manuals are disappearing; they’ve just not yet disappeared, and they still dominate the shallow end of the car pool where our children will be fishing in their early adult years. If they were all leaving for the Moggy white Anglosphere, you might have a point, but this final generation will need a manual licence.