WDB
Full Member
Posts: 7,425 
|
Post by WDB on Nov 2, 2020 22:07:48 GMT
I’ve been watching stuff on All4 recently. That means adverts. And a lot of those have been for Toyota’s ‘self-charging hybrids’.
The latest one features a claim that you can drive one ‘in electric mode’ 53 percent of the time at (small print) an average of 23mph. It doesn’t tell you that if you want to go any further or faster, you’ll need the petrol engine to haul you and the batteries around.
To put it another way, Toyota bet wrong and is desperate to persuade us that its Noughties technology is still relevant. You can probably tell I’m not impressed.
|
|
Avant
Full Member
Posts: 691
|
Post by Avant on Nov 2, 2020 22:20:24 GMT
In fairness to Toyota, the Prius has been around for over 20 years so they haven't done badly from their hybrids. They clearly have a clever ad agency: the 'self-charging' epithet came along when PHEVs first appeared.
I was quite impressed with the 2.0 Corolla I tried, although it isn't best suited to my particular needs. Where this technology works best is if you live in town and have to park on the street (so no plugging in), and also drive mainly in town. On a long motorway run it wouldn't do any better than the 40+ mpg that my petrol Audi will do.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Nov 2, 2020 23:07:16 GMT
WDB I've seen the advert too - but I thought it was Lexus (obviously still Toyota). To claim up to 53% driving on electric is a lie IMO. Read somewhere about a taxi driver with the PHEV black cab telling someone they were looking forward to getting self charging hybrid next to avoid plugging in. So they had bought into this perpetual motion engine lie too... the other person careful explained.
Might have even been on here I read it.
The bit that I dislike most about this self charging lie is that a PHEV will also charge the same as a non-plugin hybrid. Only draw back is more batteries to drag around but you also have a bigger electric motor to drive faster on electric power. Some PHEVs now are doing over 50 miles on electric. Toyota did have their plugin Prius but didn't make enough of it. Their biggest problem is on WLTP testing the hybrids from Toyota are quite polluting really.
On a long motorway run I've got over 50mpg out of the Skoda Superb and nearly as much in the Audi A3 saloon.
|
|
|
|
Post by dixinormus on Nov 3, 2020 1:12:16 GMT
As Avant implies, it’s difficult to be too harsh on Toyota. In addition to the success of the Prius (in Uber and minicab circles at least), the Camry hybrid has sold in huge numbers. The new RAV4 hybrid seems to be well-received too. And I’d put a Corolla 2.0 on my shortlist ahead of a Focus.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 8:06:06 GMT
Unless behaviour changes self charging hybrids remain the stepping stone between the conventional fuel burners and electric. PHEVs are just big self charging hybrids used and abused by company car drivers to cut their tax liability. www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/2020/1/8/plug-in-hybrids-without-behavioural-compliance-risk-failureWhy plug in at home and incur cost yourself when there's an engine onboard which is paid for through a fuel card funded by someone else in the worst case ? The Auris hybrid we had averaged 53mpg on long runs at the speed limit, I once saw 97mpg driving around Edinburgh in 20mph zones. The best I ever got out of a single charge was 5 miles in city driving. Two things annoyed me about the Toyota: 1. The hopelessly inaccurate speedo read 59 kph @ 50 kph 2. The short service intervals @15,000kms. I've got a diesel can do 30,000kms between services. I remember when diesels required an oil change every 6 months or about 9,000kms. I thought those days were behind us. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 9:05:04 GMT
WDB I've seen the advert too - but I thought it was Lexus (obviously still Toyota). To claim up to 53% driving on electric is a lie IMO. Read somewhere about a taxi driver with the PHEV black cab telling someone they were looking forward to getting self charging hybrid next to avoid plugging in. So they had bought into this perpetual motion engine lie too... the other person careful explained. Might have even been on here I read it. The bit that I dislike most about this self charging lie is that a PHEV will also charge the same as a non-plugin hybrid. Only draw back is more batteries to drag around but you also have a bigger electric motor to drive faster on electric power. Some PHEVs now are doing over 50 miles on electric. Toyota did have their plugin Prius but didn't make enough of it. Their biggest problem is on WLTP testing the hybrids from Toyota are quite polluting really. On a long motorway run I've got over 50mpg out of the Skoda Superb and nearly as much in the Audi A3 saloon. The Vauxhall Ampera was reaching these electric only range levels 10 years ago. It was ahead of its time, and when others introduced PHEV vehicles they were nearly all inferior. Only now are they catching up with the Ampera. One of the most under-rated and criminally unsuccessful cars of all time. It was essentially a proper EV with a petrol generator, like the i3 REX (which is the only car that outdid the Ampera, but was of course more successful because badge). I was really, really tempted to get an Ampera when I traded the Leaf this year, but it was just a bigger risk seeing as they are all at least 3 years older then my new Leaf now. There really *should* be tens of thousands of them on the road. |
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Nov 3, 2020 10:52:20 GMT
>> Why plug in at home and incur cost yourself when there's an engine onboard which is paid for through a fuel card funded by someone else in the worst case ?
Because my employer does not pay for private fuel and even if they did I would refuse because the tax liability for private fuel is far higher than I could ever benefit from.
I do have a fuel card I have to use but I repay through salary deduction for pro-rata fuel use.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 12:16:33 GMT
The problem is, as the data has verified, there is a group of people who will abuse a system setup with the best of intentions. Due to that group everyone suffers.
|
|
Rob
Full Member
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by Rob on Nov 3, 2020 15:15:42 GMT
I could have gone for a PHEV Passat three years ago. Because charging it outside would be a bit of a problem (having to do on the street outside house) then I decided to not go for a PHEV. Doing so would have been wrong to drag along a load of flat batteries.
But now in 2020 electric charging will not be an issue to top up for local miles because I can charge at Tesco. I mostly do local miles so I should be able to avoid using petrol. For the occasional longer journey then it will mostly have to work like a hybrid. I didn't try the Volvo XC40 or BMW 330e on long enough journeys to see how the battery fared on a long journey. But when I tried the Passat GTE after a 220 mile journey, some of which was definitely on battery power alone, I had a full battery when I got to my destination so the normal hybrid side of things made a difference. I hope the 330e is much the same, especially if you programme the destination in the sat nav.
|
|
