Avant
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Post by Avant on Sept 30, 2020 17:08:10 GMT
As most of you know, I'm building a shortlist, in a fairly unhurried way, of possible replacements next spring for my Audi Q2 which will be three years old next April.
(In answer to the reasonable suggestion 'keep the Q2 long-term' - I'm not convinced about the reliabilty of VAG cars over 3 years old, although it's been impeccable so far; and also it would be good to do one's bit for the environment, even if a very small bit.)
For an average 12,000 miles a year involving regular 8-15-mile return trips within rural Dorset, and 200-250-mile return trips on average twice a month, a PHEV seemed the obvious answer - electric power for the short runs, petrol for the long trips with no range anxiety. The BMW X1, Ford Kuga, and forthcoming Skoda Octavia PHEV (impressions based on the Superb that I tried) are the most impressive so far.
But having recently tried a Hyundai Kona Electric, last week, and a Kia E-Niro this morning, pure EVs have a lot more going for them than I'd thought. Both of these can go at least 250 miles on a charge, and that can if needed be eked out a little further if you don't rush and you use regenerative braking. Both have terrific acceleration even in Normal mode, and the Kia in particular has a very good ride/handling balance, better than the Kona.
Both EVs and PHEVs cost more than their petrol equivalents. It seems to me that it'll take forever for the slightly lower fuel costs of a PHEV to compensate, whereas an EV will cost quite a bit less to run if I get a wallbox and shop around for a suitable tariff. And we have a petrol car as well, the A3 convertible, which can do any really long journeys.
I found the E-Niro very persuasive this morning, both as an EV and as a car that was good to drive. It helped that the excellent Kia dealer in Mere (Wilts) let me have it for the whole morning. SWMBO was working from home but came out for a spin in it and was also impressed. Definitely one to think about - and perhaps even to order later this year if nothing else impresses.
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Post by Humph on Sept 30, 2020 17:21:59 GMT
Very interesting Avant. We were only talking this last weekend about how my wife is an ideal candidate for an EV in due course, and now that they do sitty uppy ones...then we drifted off into thinking that we maybe don't really need a car each as things are, but will that always be the case...??
Happy hunting anyway !
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 30, 2020 21:15:03 GMT
If you only do mostly short journeys, doesn't a PHEV still make some sense? Some don't cost much more than their petrol equivalent. The 330e is about the same as a 320d. Hard to do like for like comparison on lower than a 320d M Sport because the upgraded infotainment you get as standard in all 330e's is only available in the M Sport for any other engine.
Don't forget Tesco's have free electricity in many locations with the Pod Point chargers ;-)
So Avant, have you looked at the VW ID.3 yet? I know the first edition is expensive but cheaper variants will be available before you are ready to order.
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Post by dixinormus on Sept 30, 2020 23:41:59 GMT
Like Al, Avant can hedge all bets by keeping one ICE vehicle on the fleet, allowing him to go pure EV safe in the knowledge that he has a back-up car for long distance journeys.
Why buy the added weight and complexity of a PHEV?
Then again, if the price premium for an EV is sufficiently high (as it often is!) then maybe a fuel-efficient petrol engine is the way to go for the next few years..?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 8:38:40 GMT
If you're doing 12,000 miles a year, then the fuel savings with an EV will compensate for the extra screen price, over a few years.
If you're comfortable with a car which has a 250 mile range, then go for it. A PHEV is obsolete tech already.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Oct 1, 2020 8:41:43 GMT
In answer to the reasonable suggestion 'keep the Q2 long-term' - I'm not convinced about the reliabilty of VAG cars over 3 years old, although it's been impeccable so far; and also it would be good to do one's bit for the environment... At the risk of seeming facetious, one bit you could do would be not to buy a new car every three years. Even buying a ‘green’ car is an act of consumption, and it’s our consumptive habits that are the main driver of environmental degradation. Is there any evidence beyond anecdote on fleecy motoring forums that a four-year-old Audi is more likely to stop working than anything else? Even if it is, you’ve got it now, and setting aside a few months’ PCP payments would leave you adequately self-insured against unscheduled repairs. It’s what I’ve done over eight years of running out-of-warranty cars and so far I’ve spent very little of the contingency fund (although I might happily do without the CLS’s accidental appetite for tyres.) |
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Post by Humph on Oct 1, 2020 8:50:37 GMT
Having bought my company car 6 months ago at a (very) fair price, and now running it privately, I'm increasingly tempted just to keep it "forever". As mentioned elsewhere, it ticks all my current boxes and I can't think of a replacement that would be any better for me at the moment. When it's used for "business" I'm just charging the company a mileage rate for those miles so don't need to submit receipts or whatever.
Not that it affects me, but I wonder what happens about reclaiming fuel costs if someone has a company as opposed to privately owned EV? Presumably they are going to being charging it on their domestic electricity supply, but using it on company business. Wonder how that works? Not wondering much in fairness, but just curious.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Oct 1, 2020 8:58:50 GMT
Just a mileage rate, as with any other car. You filled your company car up at your expense, presumably, then claimed a rate per mile, not for the fuel itself. All that’s different for an EV is that you pay for the fill-up through the electricity bill instead.
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Post by Humph on Oct 1, 2020 9:12:32 GMT
Yes, I can see how that would work. I used to pay for fuel using a company cc and then pay them back for private miles, so instead of shelling out hundreds of pounds a month and having to claim it back, I might instead have just been paying out £50 or so for private use. But, I can see how "your" way could work for a company EV.
In reality, I never had to make an actual payment because there were always enough other incidental claims ( parking etc ) to offset any debt.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 1, 2020 9:18:02 GMT
I can't check what the expense systems says for EVs because I have a company car and fuel card (repay for private miles through payroll) and therefore do not claim any business miles. It's included in the day rate if I attend a customer site.
I do wonder if it is possible - company car scheme still does not allow for EVs but does PHEVs. No doubt partly based on range and ability to charge and then claim it back.
I wonder what people without a means to charge an EV or PHEV at home will do when petrol and diesel cars are banned? Not all cars will have rapid DC charging.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 1, 2020 9:20:34 GMT
And I've just found the old style HR mileage rates for claiming expenses. As I suspected, nothing for electric. Only petrol, diesel and LPG.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Oct 1, 2020 10:11:10 GMT
"I wonder what people without a means to charge an EV or PHEV at home will do when petrol and diesel cars are banned."
This of course is the key question: how can EVs be made practicable for people living in towns and cities, where EVs are needed most? We're starting to see lamppost-mounted chargers and kerbside pads laid in the road: but the ideal is something that I don't know whether it's scientifically possible - will we ever be able to 'beam' electricity remotely from a house or flat to a car in the street outside?
If the kerbside road pads are contactless, it would seem that we might be on the way there. But I'm no scientist, so someone shoot me down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 10:17:05 GMT
150kw public chargers are being rolled out. 300kw is coming. Recharge in minutes, not hours. Not much longer than filling with petrol and buying/eating a large Ginster's pastie and industrial size tube of Pringles.
My old tech Leaf can't use them, but the new generation coming online can. We sorted that one on out another thread here. So, in 10 years time, the problem will pretty much not exist. Also, it's the sale of diesel and petrol being banned, not the use. So there's time for people to wear out their old cars and cross over.
Pretty much all the arguments against EVs are over.
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Post by Humph on Oct 1, 2020 10:23:16 GMT
I'm sure it will be overcome/solved at some point, but that same thought has occurred to me. When I had my flat in central Bath, it was a rare occasion indeed when I could park directly outside it. On many occasions I'd be up to three streets away in some random spot, and even when the car was outside my flat, it was on the second floor and across a wide pavement from the car, so running a cable from my bedroom window wouldn't have been an option.
Quite a bit of work/cost/faff to put charging pads outside every property without off street parking, on every street, in every town, city and village in the next ten years you'd think. 🤔
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Oct 1, 2020 10:37:18 GMT
There’ll be a lot of petrol station forecourts looking for a new purpose. I’m no thatcherite but in this case I’ve no doubt the market will provide.
Besides, driver-operated EVs are only a stepping stone. Once the vehicle can drive itself, parking and charging spots will cease to matter. It will drop you at home, then beetle off to a yard somewhere to charge and await your next command — or, equally likely, to pick up another subscriber to the car-on-demand service.
Don’t assume only one factor will change in the next ten years!
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