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Post by Hofmeister on Dec 14, 2016 22:45:58 GMT
You were muttering about looking into moving to Scotland at one time Al, did you ever check out that option? The weather can be a bit iffy, but otherwise it's a great place if you know where to look. Most natives look south as far as I know.
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Post by lygonos on Dec 15, 2016 0:10:23 GMT
Nah - I've seen how the NHS is going down your way - you can keep it.
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Avant
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Post by Avant on Dec 15, 2016 0:37:03 GMT
Going back to Humph's original question, the pressing need is for all schools - private or state - to discover what talents each pupil has (and each one does have talents), and encourage them to make the best use for them. Undoubtedly most private schools and grammar schools are better than most comprehensives at this, but it doesn't need to be so. Comprehensives could do a whole lot more to identify non-academic children and point them towards some vocation which will interest them.
I was very lucky: I was an only child, and my father could - just - afford to send me to an excellent prep school where I was taught well enough to get a scholarship to Westminster, and thence to Cambridge. But SWMBO and I had four children and there was no way we could afford private education. And frankly the comprehensives failed them. The younger two went to a different school from the elder two, but none of them went on to A-levels. Yet all have done worthwhile things in their 20s and 30s. For example, our eldest is a plumber, and a good one. He could have been directed towards that trade, or a similar one, at school, instead of leaving school feeling a failure.
WDB, if your boys are at the grammar school I think they're at (at the top of a hill), it has an excellent reputation: I used to do careers fairs there for the ICAEW and was impressed. But my problem with grammar schools is that if a child fails the 11-plus, ten years old is much too young to be written off as a failure - and that's how the child will feel. If another chance could be given at age 12-13 it would be much fairer: I suppose that the grammars simply want to fill their places with a cohort of children at the same time.
It seems very unfair for children to pass the exam and then still not get into Reading School. Reading Blue Coat, although fee-paying, isn't as expensive as some: it was certainly an excellent school while Mike Windsor was headmaster, although he's just moved to take over at Abingdon School. Blue Coat was- I hope still is - certainly a school which discovers and nurtures talents of all sorts.
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Post by Humph on Dec 15, 2016 8:45:15 GMT
Nah - I've seen how the NHS is going down your way - you can keep it. I'd go back in a heartbeat if I could. Whenever I do make the journey it feels like I'm taking a heavy backpack off as soon as I cross the border. The sky is just so much bigger if that makes sense? Then, Edinburgh and Glasgow are vibrant cities with loads going on and a great atmosphere. The weather is an issue for me but it's mostly about dressing appropriately. My problem is that I'd find it hard to get work in my field and my wife has very strong family ties in Cheshire. Elderly parents etc. So, for now anyway, I'm stuck here in a place that ought to be satisfactory, equable climate, very pretty etc but doesn't feel like home to me. In my fantasy world I'd have a Georgian townhouse in Edinburgh and a log cabin or something in the Highlands as a holiday home. Not going to happen short of a lottery win I'm afraid !
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Post by Alanović on Dec 15, 2016 9:46:45 GMT
Humph, yes I've still got Scotland in my mind. After our visit in October I'd really like to go to the Stirling area. Drymen, where my Dad's family come from, ideally. I love it there. I'd love to do it, but again there's a rather immovable object in the way of that one. An object which has already moved countries several times in her life and doesn't really want to be uprooted again.
Interesting to hear Avant mention Reading Blue Coat. I've always been set against that school as I've known a few of its alumni and they don't often have great things to say about the experience. It's always been heavily militarised too. I discounted the place as a possible for my lad, but given the lowish fees on offer the Mrs was quite keen. Then we visited on a Thursday, which is the day of the week they allow pupils to attend school in their military cadets uniforms and have an organised parade around the school flag pole. With about 80% of pupils in the cadets, it's quite a sight if you're not prepared for it. I suppose some people would absolutely relish that sort of atmosphere but the Mrs ran away screaming. I'd tried to tell beforehand, but you know. It's firmly off the list now anyway.
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WDB
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Post by WDB on Dec 15, 2016 10:27:23 GMT
I suppose the grammar and private schools give themselves a head start on nurturing talent by screening at the start for the rather narrow range of talent they want to nurture. Certainly No1 is right in that band - maths and physics are his core subjects but he scores well across the board - and is much more comfortable now being seen to be keen than he was in the two years he spent at our local comprehensive, where the staff weren't a problem but some other students were, shall we say, less encouraging.
Didn't know about Blue Coat and the military. Wasn't the blue coat originally a perverse badge of shame, marking out its wearer as one whose education was being paid for by a charity? Or something? I've only been there at weekends, for under-9 cricket matches on the front field and my own coaching certificate in the excellent sports hall. It never occurred to me it might be an affordable choice for my two; it probably still isn't.
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Post by Alanović on Dec 15, 2016 10:44:41 GMT
No idea where the blue coat thing comes from, but it's not the only blue coat school in the country I think. It's about 12-15k per pupil per annum I think.
Your point about selection is of course correct, WDB. Mrs A keeps on about the "great results" schools like Abingdon et al get compared to our local comp. Yes, of course they do. Apples and oranges. I'm frankly more impressed that our local comp sends about three pupils every year to Oxbridge, amongst other good universities. Far more impressive consider they don't get to select who they have to start with. Able pupils seem to achieve their potential without too much trouble. But the point she makes to me is the one you make about the attitudes of 'other children' at non-selective schools potentially dragging an able child down. Well, I've got the confidence in my children's character and our involvement and encouragement as parents to not be too worried about that. I certainly don't think it's risk which needs a financial contingency applied to it in terms of large fractions of millions of pounds.
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Post by Humph on Dec 15, 2016 11:42:19 GMT
Our position was driven, in part anyway, by the rather odd nature, unpredictability and huge variability, of my income. Some years it would have been relatively easily affordable, whereas others would have been more than a struggle. Quite apart from whether it was the right thing to do for our son or not, we simply didn't want to put ourselves, or him, in a position where we might have to chop and change his schools according to our circumstances.
So far so good, I'm pleased to say, he has achieved excellent results and seems to be happy and continuing to thrive. If he had not enjoyed his school, or there had been obvious problems, we might have taken another view I suppose, but instead we've tried to ensure that he has had other opportunities to experience things that we might not have been able to do for him, had we been struggling to cope with a financial commitment to private education at certain times.
Who knows if that was the best strategy, and for others it wouldn't be, but at present we have no regrets. He has an eclectic group of friends from all sections of the community and I think that, is in and of itself, healthy. At his age I suspect that I thought everyone's father played golf and had a Volvo, and that everyone went to the South of France for the summer. He labours under no such illusions and recognises that if he is to succeed in life, he'll need to work hard to achieve that.
However, I would never say that is the only way, everyone's circumstances are different and people are different.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 20:18:55 GMT
Bit busy at the mo' so just briefly..
There is a gulf, a huge gulf, between the state and private education systems. The private schools, by and large, are worth every penny. Whether you consider academic, the arts, sports, after school, behavioral, equipment, infrastructure, attitude, development or any other aspects the difference is massive.
I cannot imagine being able to pay it and not doing so.
The ONLY downside I can see is you are unable to see it through and at some point cause your children to leave teh private system and return to the state.
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Post by bromptonaut on Dec 18, 2016 10:41:31 GMT
Not clear if Otto is talking about UK or Chile. My own observations in UK are that the differences are more nuanced. Obviously places like Stowe, just up the road, are in another league in terms of space facilities etc. Others seem closer to the comps in terms of design, space etc. Results look better but that's a product of selection (of both children and parents) as much as any inate difference.
I could never have got near affording fees so private was not an option. The local rural comprehensive is in walking distance and at that time had an excellent reputation. It did and still does get students into Oxbridge most years.
Both kids got a well rounded education, good GCSE and A level results. Neither went to Russel Group places but both have good degrees from well regarded 'new' Universities.
Would they have done better in the Independent day schools in town? I don't know. Might have tipped them into higher profile Uni's but would they have thrived? Both have anxiety issues (almost certainly hereditary) and there was a concensus that The Lad would do better being a large fish in a small pond. He's had enough of education for now and is delivering Pizza's while on wait list for a job in HMRC. Top 3% in his aptitude tests and 7/7 points in each competency tested at interview.
On the wider issue I'm eternally grateful they're not entering today's 'system'. The whole thing just seems to be driven by dogma and test results. Talking to an old friend yesterday who had a career as Primary Head and now works abroad. Spoke of despair of experience of his son, training to be an early years teacher and temping as a Teaching Assistant in a Gloucestershire Primary. No time for music, painting or even being read too. Mornings are learning phonics and afternoons maths. All driven by need to score in tests rather than any real grasp of joys of reading etc.
Not much different in Secondaries. Mrs B is researching for her PhD in an Academy school at poorer end of a prosperous town. Now talk in staff room about subjects, just how to teach kids to pass tests. Academic tests that a significant proportion haven't a snowballs of passing. There's a whole cohort there who are by age 12, utterly disengaged from an education which doesn't address their needs. Kids who see themselves as failures because they come out as 0 rather than 1 in tests with a binary outcome.
If the system gave them a chance to take vocational subjects they might fly. But all that stuff was removed, along with course work, in a dogma led lurch back to 'proper' exams and the removal of 'easy' subjects. Sure we need to support and nurture high flyers but I' not sure we're even doing that properly but I'm less concerned about then than the 15% at the other end of range.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 12:46:43 GMT
>>Not clear if Otto is talking about UK or Chile. My own observations in UK are that the differences are more nuanced.
The UK.
And the difference is about as nuanced as a brick.
>> Results look better but that's a product of selection (of both children and parents) as much as any innate difference.
I don't agree really, the education is of a much higher standard in my experience, the way the children are treated, the attention paid to individuals, the class/pupil ration etc. etc all foster better performance. However, even if it were solely by selection of children and parents, I wouldn't really care. Just so as its better. I particularly enjoy the selection of parents, or rather the deselection of some parents.
Your last 4 paragraphs go quite some way towards explaining the advantages of a private school education.
I like Stowe very much. My girls have played quite a lot of sport there, and it was one of the schools we were considering had we remained in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 12:49:00 GMT
And I entirely agree, the entire state education system should be that good. But it isn't, and until it is I shall do my very best to keep my children out of it.
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